Karaoke Forums

I think this is an appropriate topic. Any voice instructors out there ?

This within itself is an area of skill.

Cool thread Steven. I am glad ya did this.

NO- not me, haha, never done anything of the sort myself. Except with my kids as they learn to try stuff. And then my advice is kinda along the lines of "Close your eyes......pretend there is nobosy else in the room..... and let her fly". I make my kids try to hear their OWN errors, and correct them themselves- and so far it works. Now they will say things like "Oh- that was off key- I was too low, huh?" And ....that would be the end of what I can do. THAT would be my singing advice.

I'll be interested to keep up with this thread. It might prove to be very interesting. Good one.

Off to see that new baby now.

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BlueStainedShoes,
It also just occurred to me that this issue is even more complex. This entails not just a critique of a "real" or live performing person, yet a performance further complicated by recording equipment, and technical aspects incorporated by the amateur.
This must also be about a critique in this type venue.

Jazzy, I'm glad you are contributing. I commented on a few of your songs. You are truly an amazingly diverse, talented vocalist.



(castigating self for going off topic)



Is it inappropriate to mention pitch in a critique if a person genuinely seems to have an inability to discern pitch ? I'm wondering about this because there are variations of thought regarding what we once called "Tone deafness". Some don't believe this really exists. They believe a person can be trained to learn how to match pitches on the non-tempered instruments. To me, the voice is a non-tempered instrument. It's very tough for most to match the semitone to the exact "cent" in most cases anyway. Have you ever had a student that you have felt it best left unsaid about their "pitch" issues ?

ok i know this topic is talking about me, for one...Blue mentioned me in her comment...OWN...that hurt... to try to get her kids to NOT do what OWN does is kinda mean i think...but i could be wrong on that......kkkk...

i feel there r people that r tone deaf...and i have found that alot of those same people think they sing great, r very good, not sure what to say about that.. ...i think jazzy covered it pretty well, and so did Blue....you think i don't know how to keep the piece with 2 ladies? ....i feel that natural talent wins out al the time on being taught to sing, altho i do believe that u can be taught to improve ur natural talent....ok why am i typing this? i seem to be going around in circles.....
what was the topic again? ....

i will say this in closeing, if you want to talk about me? please do it behind my back ok....

Yes, Steven- it is about mixing too. Alot of folks here find that really important. That's not true in the "real" karaoke world- because usually you sing on a system set up by someone else. But people here like to give/recieve feedback on that too.

That's a little simpler to do- mixing problems, the major ones- are so much more obvious usually.

Again- I comment occasionally on that, but not normally. Gosh knows- my singing talent is much better than my mixing talent. So.....IMO, if I don't feel I should critique singing, I sure should probably not critique mixing either. I only do when it's an obvious thing.

YAY Jazzy....... see, you could help alot of people I think. Well, I guess you do in real life. Your posts are so well explained that even someone who has NO knowledge of musical terms could understand you. I realize- as someone pointed out in another thread- you can't go to every "C " sub and tear them to bits. But I'm sure those who receive this info from you appreciate the time you take to make sense.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Yep - I completely agree on this. For example- my first subs here I said that I was lookin for songs to sing in a contest. I did get some vocal critique but I got alot of mixing advice which wasn't particularly what I was lookin for at the time.

Part of the problem is, in my mind, that if we're asking for critiques, it would be helpful to state what you are hoping to be critiqued on in the description. Are you looking for recording/mixing technique critiques, or vocal, etc.? Another problem is the word "CRITIQUE" -- I prefer to look at it as "ADVICE" instead.

But to be honest, some of the problems that are still coming up is because some people don't want to be critiqued at all even tho they've marked critique. The only reason they've marked 'critique' is because they want to be ranked & there too they want it to be a perfect 10 because they want to see their name in the "Top ranked songs/singers" list. I'M NOT SAYING EVERYONE IS DOING THIS - BUT THERE ARE SOME I'VE SEEN THROW A FIT ABOUT A "MEDIOCRE' (sp?) RATING and COMMENT.

I've had some musical training and a lot of musical experience (yes I may not sound like it when ya hear me sing but I took 10 yrs off from singing too so give me some slack ok?). I know what it feels like to get trampled on and also the high that can come with compliments. I'm also never going to proclaim that I'm an expert because by no means am I.

Jazzy's UP-DOWN-UP method is what I've tried to use here. It's also what I'd prefer to receive myself when I ask for critique.

I also critique based upon my first listen and I'm typing while I'm listening. If something isn't glaringly obvious then I don't mention it - I'm not going to sit and listen 40 times and pick it apart.

Unfortunately - everyone is different in their methods and some people only know how to do cut-throat critiquing - that's also a fact of life. There are some "not so nice" people out there. Unfortunately, there's no forum that will fix that. All we can do is suggest how people can critique but you can't slap them because they don't do it "our way" (even tho we'd like to slap 'em sometimes).

I also do not "hide" behind my rating I guess if you could call it that. Most of the times after I've critiqued I will tell them what I've ranked them as well. I figure that way they know if I was being fair or not. It kind of eckles me to see good comments on subs but the rank is fairly low and the comments don't match up to the rank.

OK - now I've written a book so I'm ending there...

Good luck in your quest for the 'perfect' critique. Not to be negative - I don't mean to sound that way at all - I just think that people need to be careful in choosing that critique/rank option because you never know what you might get (speaking from experience).

OK - now did I stay on topic? I forgot what the question was lOL

Billy---- you're a nut. You know I would never say anything bad about you. Silly, silly man.

I agree- natural talent would win out over training IMO. In my 4 years of high school, my choir coach forever told me I needed to "lose that country twang"........ and my feelings were "Not on your life buddy- this is ME".
I don't WANT to sound like a pro singer, all "cultured" and such. It wouldn't suit what I like to sing at all. It shows through on some professional singers..... Martina McBride for one. I LOVE her voice and her songs, but IMO she sounds a little too "refined".
When I hear a new singer what stands out most to me is : Okay, they are a good SINGER but do I like the VOICE.
Granted - this is all MY opinion ya'll- so leave it at that.

OWN....... I only talk about you in my sleep, haha.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Charmin,

You may feel that you're not qualified to 'critique' but everyone is qualified to have an opinion of what they think sounds good or not good.
That's part of a critique too. I look at critiquing as if you didn't like it, tell me what you didn't like about it. If you liked it then tell me that!

See? That's why I abhore the word "CRITIQUE" -- it's an ugly word that brings out ugliness in some people who think that means they have to find something bad in things.

I asked Matt (Knightshow) not too long ago what type of critique he was looking for and he responded that even just saying "Yes your voice fits to this song" helps him know where he stands.

Blue? Does that mean ur having nightmares about me? i just love ur sense of humor....for now on in ur sleep please call me hmmmmm george....and just how big is ur hubby anyway? ....hugsssssssss

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Speaking of tone deafness....

have ANY of you heard my husband sing?!!! That is a valid case RIGHT there in FAVOR of tone deafness being a REAL thing:)

OWN--- About 5'10......somewhere around 180 I think. Gosh, he's gonna KILL me.

His pic is in the gallery thingee......he'd kill me for that too.

And- GILLY- I remember hearing your sub of Justy. Poor guy prolly wont try cause you did that, haha.

I think my hubby could, if he just tried more. I can't get him to understand that singing at the top of your lungs to a truck radio BLARING Hank Sr is NOT good singing practice. You can't hear yourself that way. But that's his preferred way to sing.

OMG- I spelled that wrong & I DO NOT know how to fix it.

Sorry- I've never been a "hijacker" and I wont do it here- no more silliness outta me guys.

Back to the topic.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

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I'm a speech-language pathologist... and have worked with many who have had "voice" problems, from vocalists to someone who has had laryngeal cancer. However, I do not begin to think that I can "tell" someone how "well" they sing.

Singing is extremely personal~

As Blue has said.. she LIKES the "country sound" that she has. Jazzy is professionally trained... and has worked for her "vocal quality". Each and every singer knows what it is they want to sound like. Roxy... I can tell you've had a lot of musical experience and training when I listen to your subs.

...... And each of the singers that I've named... are, in my opinion.... submitting some great tunes (and many I haven't mentioned as well ... just naming the ones that I've heard that are in this thread, thus far).

I "constructively critique" every day of my professional life.... because I supervise graduate students who want to become Speech-Language Pathologists. Jazzy has nailed the "key" to successful critiqueing... and that is.... Give a kudo... site something you've heard (and ALWAYS give some type of suggestion on a way to make it better.... or at least, different) ... and end with a kudo.

But .... what I think is probably the best suggestion I've read so far... is that the SINGER who has voluntarily selected "critique me".. needs to be SPECIFIC about what they'd like comments on.... in the "description" section. For instance, "what do you think of this mix... too much echo, too loud... etc.....) or ... I feel I'm "reaching for those highs.. what do you think".... etc). This way .... the person listening knows what to listen for before they click the NOTE button... and begin to listen.

Critiquing is a skill.... and it needs to be done with respect to the singers "individuality" and wishes.

And SPECIFICITY.... is vital. I once had a supervisor say "Stop asking yes - no questions". I thought to myself... huh??? Later, I stopped in... and said... what do you mean by this... and she said... "try to use an open ended question... rather than.. do you like to sing? say .... "what do you like to do in your free time". One question gets you a one word response... the other could get you hours of terrific language. I left the office... thinking... I GET IT!! The SPECIFICITY AND EXAMPLES made it all understandable. (geeeeeesh, cindy.... stop rambling... )

I guess what I've tried to say is....
1. remember that people have individual styles.... and critique with that style in mind
2. Only critique.... if its asked for! and Only comment on the things that are specifically requested.
3. Always give good with the "bad"... and support your comments with suggestions for improvement or change...
4. If you really need to say something that COULD be taken as hurtful... do it in private.... the critques in here are read by friends and strangers, don't embarrass anyone.

Im amazed at the diversity of talent that I've found here. Folks are mostly here to have FUN... share a PASSION for music and singing... and make FRIENDS. Personally, I can find something wonderful in all the subs.

P. S.

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I totally agree too. Since I have started to learn how to sing "technically correct" from my singing lessons, he said I have lost a lot of the things he used to like about my untrained voice.

He says there are parts of songs I used to sing "fun" and now I have lost that.

Things like the glottle pop....I think that is what it is.......I don't use as often anymore....and she has changed my way of singing....so I sing a bit different now.

But....I would not give up my lessons for the world! She has improved my vocal ability, my range....and even the annoying nasal drip I used to always have is gone! I can sing now without my throat getting sore....or without having to drink 8 litres of water a night (not exaggerating, by the way....I used to be able to EASILY finish off 4 pitchers of water during one night at karaoke!)

But, I would rather have natural talent first....becase then you have yourself to work off of....things you want to improve in yourself, rather than having someone telling you how you should be singing.

You make me want to run and HIDE!!!!


AHHH!!!


(coming from someone that had to see one for ALL of her childhood.) "no, i DON"T have an accent, i just TALK funny!"

Ok, much better now:)




And ritisroo, I would actually LOVE to be able to take vocal lessons. I think it would be a neat experience for me... but then, at the same time, i am terrified at what I might be told.... "technically" I am a HORRIBLE singer..... and, i only sing for fun. ( I DO understand music, and am a trained MUSICIAN, but hell, i haven't a clue what I am doing when I sing, i just open me damn mouth, and bellow:) But, i would love to hear feedback from someone trained to do so.... I like to be as good as I can be, at whatever I do... Heck, i still don't know what my REAL voice is.... I am lost;)

And, you figured out what that weird sound is, and didn't TELL ME??!

, You folks brought up a fascinating area that unfortuneately is going to force me off-topic regarding my own post, but I can't resist


With the possible rare exception of the innovative musician, that finds themselves in the right place, at the right time, with an accepted "signiture style". How many can actually bring themselves to the point of success without BOTH talent, and training ?


Cindy, Although merit to all said in here, You've reiterated on some great points. What shouldn't happen is the development of an S&M type relationship between the person craving feedback, and the person offering the criticism.

I am the same as you..in a way.

I had the natural talent to begin with....and it totally exicted me cause I could always keep up with these "pros" that have been singing for years!

Hoever, then I ran into some trouble spots...the gurgle....not being able to sing runs, and trills.....and I did not know what I was diong wrong, or how to fix it.

My instructer tells me what to do.....but she does not Tell me in a sense. I ask why...and she tells me why. She does not make me sing any way...she just tells me what I need to do to improve myself....with the problems that I ask her about.

So, I still sing like me, but I get advice on how I can make me better....if you get me !

For you, it would probably be the same. If there are little things you want to Fix....and just don't know how, they can help you out. They won't tell you you are tecnically bad....unless they are a bad teacher.

They just help Fix what you want to fix....I hope you understand my babbling !