Karaoke Forums

Hello all!

I posted this in the newbie forums but I haven't recieved an answer yet, so I'll try posing it here.

It seems that most of the posters here favor the Mackie PA speaker systems vs. the powered Mackie mixers and the non powered speakers.

Can someone tell me why? It seems to me that something like the Mackie 808m and non powered speakers would be a cheaper route. Perhaps the sound is better?

Thanks,
David

I use powered speakers for ease of set up for my mobile shows. I considered going with a powered mixer but opted not to because if the amp goes out for some reason I also loose my mixer.

Basically, a non-powered mixer gives me more flexibility - I can use powered speakers, seperate amps and non-powered speakers, or mix them up for mains and monitors.

Thanks karaokemeister, but isn't it more likely for your powered speakers to go out?

Thanks again!

Hey Dogtrack,

Nice to meet you..

To a degree you have answered your own question ... Money

Margie and I started out with a Mackie 808S...The S indicates the unit is Stereo/2 channel. The units channels can be seperated and run as two mono channels, one for the mains and one for monitors. There are separate controls for each. It also has built in effects. What I liked was the expandibility of the unit. You can run amps and a crossover in order to run subs, mains and a monitor system. The system will work fine for a small venue.

If you are just starting out you should buget $4000 - $5000 dollars for a bare system, music, and books. Figure double that for a good quality system. Many here have much more invested in their systems. In the end the deciding factor will not be how much you invest but how well you use it.

Hope this helps..

Cort
mcentertainment

Thats the beauty of powered speakers. One goes out, the show goes on with the other speakers you use. Your amp or powered mixer dies, show is over, unless you want to carry doubles of everything. Also the amp in the speakers are designed for those speakers, no worries about 4 or 8 ohms or whatever or do I have enough or too much juice in my amp. With the powered speakers you don't have that worry.

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Oh I don't agree with that. I've helped put together some pretty nice systems on a $2000-2500 budget that still blow some of the companies around my area away that have spent more. Top of the line isn't always the way to go in certain situations - it sometimes helps but the main thing is LEARNING & making the system work to it's full capacity. Although this is just the cost of the PA only, not counting discs at all.
I've seen some companies that have all the bells & whistles - best speakers, amps, etc & they still sounded like crap because they didn't know how to run it. Then i've also seen other companies with systems that when I walked in said to myself hmmmm, but then was pleasantly surprised.

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Your question was limited to Mackie but I think it's a more general question and really doesn't have anything to do with them. We'll leave my personal preference out of this other than to say I believe Mackie is becoming the Bose of "pro" audio -- wonderful marketing but product.......

I can't emphasize enough to figure out what your budget is first rather than go shopping for gear and then figure it out. I've done it both ways and find that if I have my budget in mind it keeps my mind from wandering.

That said it used to be that if you were shopping for powered gear it was because of budget or portability but these days that line is getting very blurry. For instance, I have a B-52 Matrix 1000 that has a 400w powered sub and two 150w powered satellites. Portable? Sort of, don't tell my back it is. I also have a pair of the original JBL EONs and they are VERY portable and sound fantastic to boot despite being not as pretty as they used to be.

Once you have your budget then you can figure out your application. What sort of venues are you going to be at, how many people, how much room will there be for your gear, etc.

I can take a powered mixer head from Peavey, Behringer, Soundcraft, whomever and make it sound halfway decent although I'll grumble about it most of the night. You can definitely put on a show with a powered mixer with the powered mixer head being the ultimate in portable.

Personally, I took the other approach. I used a Soundcraft mixer as the foundation for my system so that I have a rack that's my mixer and all my effects. Right now I'm using powered speakers, there's a wide variety of applications and I can hook up to any of them. Even if I went to an amp and passive speakers it would still be very easy. If you go the powered mixer amp though you are supremely limited -- I think some have a passive output so you can still mix with it using another power source but that's not exactly portable anymore. A great many of them are underpowered for many applications and even if you wanted more power you're out of luck.

If I was looking for an ultra-budget, ultra-portable system I can see using a mixing amp and would accept being limited, they're not bad for backups either once you expand. However, I can see a great many other options out there as well that may not be quite as portable but much more flexible.

I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. I've had good and bad experiences with both powered and unpowered speakers and boards. However if you are going to look into a powered mixer take a look at the Yamaha EMX5000-12 12-Channel 1000W Powered Mixer. It has two built in effects and is probably suitable power for most venues. I've never used it myself but have heard many good things.

Loneman wrote:




My suggestion did include discs(music)...A good buget should include all related expenses.

Not trying to squabble with you Lonman, I have a great deal of respect for you ... you are an asset to this site.

I also agree that knowing how to use your equipment can make a bigger difference than the cost of that system.

My personal preference is for seperate amps.

Cort
mcentertainment

It didn't look like he was asking about discs that's why I thought your figure was a little high. With discs I can see it.



If given the choice, i'd go with powered speakers over a powered mixer. Reason is this, with the powered speakers, everything is built & tuned for that particular enclosure. The amps are set-up internally for maximum efficiency. If you blow a speaker, you can limp by the rest of the night on the other.
With the powered mixer - I think this has already been stated - they are very limited on their power. Now the Mackie 808 series does have more versatility over other mixer/amps. For 1 includes insert points for correctly adding compression to vocals - most all other brands do not include this. You can add external power amps if needed (this goes for most brands as well). Some you can add external processing as well. But if you get to a point where you might need the extras, you may as well buy for what you may need now.
I prefer separate components as well.

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karaokemeister, mcentertainment, timberlea, Lonman, wgfinley116, pkircher thank you for posting.

I was thinking of going with the Mackie mixers because it seems to be the most popular here and felt I could find support for it on the forums if needed.

I am leaning towards 2 Mackie SRM 450 PA speakers and ether the DFX 6 or the DRF 12 for now. I don't plan on ever using more than two mics.

Any thoughts on this choice?

Thanks again

Good choice. Is this for home or business use? It would work very well in either situation.

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Homes and friends back yards.

Lonman, would you get the 6 or 12 mixer?

Regards

Just me because I like to plan ahead for possibly needing that extra channel or 2, i'd probably get the 12 - but that's just me. But if it's just for your family & friends at home & no club work, you probably wouldn't need any more than the 6.

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Thanks!

I use the Brehinger PMX500. It has 800 watts with daul effects. Its easy to use 20 channel board. You can dead head the on board amp and go through the other out puts from the broard. I have used this broard along with my other amps to fill up large dance halls @ the size of 135,000 sqft. I am getting into the karaoke scene do to dealing with band members really sucks. Just because your board is powered doesn't mean you have to use that power. I don't use my on board power when I use my 100' stage snake to get away from the stage.

The reason I like the board I got is this. Small bars only need mixer board and speakers, or big hall to run sound for a band I pack up the trailer and leave the karaoke music at home.

True enough, but the Ford Escort was the best selling car in America for a number of years - popular doesn't equate to good. As a claims adjuster I saw plenty of '95 Honda Civics -- not very many '95 Ford Escorts.

Mackie makes a decent product, don't get me wrong, I've seen my fair share of stuff they made that was not so good. The DFX6 or 12 are decent boards for home use, I wouldn't touch them because they're not rack mountable but that's pro use. For home, backyard stuff and that same money I would get the Soundcraft Spirit Notepad, no question, made in England so you can pretend it's an Allen & Heath.

What I don't get is you're saying home use and then talking the Mackie powered speaks. Those are great speaks (Mackie bought a great company to get them ) but for the house that's just screaming overkill to me. A great pair of home speakers would be the EV Sx80 which is now discontinued but I saw a few on eBay right now. Those can be had for half the price of the Mackie stuff and will be much more appropriate for your application. Barring that the EV Sx100s are also very nice or JBL EON P1s (not the G2s, that's some bank but if you were shopping Mackie hell yeah look at the G2s!!).

These are all pro audio speakers though, if you're going to be in the house most of the time I would look for a pair of nice studio monitors, go to any of the big music store websites and search for "studio monitor" and you'll find a large selection.

Unless you are recording there is no reason to get a studio monitor. They are not designed to be a PA speaker - especially if he decides he needs any kind of volume out of them. They are designed to reproduce as accurately as possible a flat frequency range - most people like to add bass & treble to their music which will hurt a monitor over time. He also stated that while this would be a home system, he would also be doing backyard & outside parties as well. ANY outdoor party needs more power as there is nothing to contain the sound, you tend to turn the volume up to compensate. The 450's work well outside. Many have those same speakers in their homes as well with excellent results. Because the power is there don't mean that you will use it all - in a home situation, it's added headroom to be sure that you won't be distorting if you plan on turning the system up.

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Like I said in the other similar thread Lonman, I respect your knowledge as a gigging professional. If he's got $1400 laying around for leisure speakers and his wife doesn't care about massive speakers on stands cluttering up the living room or he doesn't care about throwing out his back moving them around all the time then more power to him. It's overkill.

Studio monitors will absolutely efficiently provide the sound he's looking for in a closed environment. Outdoor, yes, he's going to be pushing it but I don't think he's looking at pro level output, it's leisure.

If a gigging pro came on here looking at the Mackies I would tell him, yes, great speaks -- bar, lots of bodies deadening sound, lots of noise, you need the power. Karaoke over cocktail weinies? You don't need those.

A gigging pro needs the power and durability of quality PA speakers, speakers that will recover their cost in revenue in no time. Someone using them for leisure needs neither the power nor the durability and won't be recovering on his investment until his wife hollers at him about them taking up space and sells them on eBay! I'll be happy to take them off his hands at that time but it won't be for anywhere near $1400.

They aren't all that heavy at 51 pounds. Not that big - i've seen some home speakers sold at target that were actually bigger in size. Yes he will need to decide if the cost is worth it, but you'd be surprised how many will spend the extra cash to get the sound. Hell I have a set of older Peavey International 115 3 ways in my living room bi-amped with a CS1000 & CS400, my wife LOVES the sound we get when singing at home, & those are a heck of a lot heavier & pricier overall than a set of 450's. Not to mention when we have parties - < the place rocks. But then these were my original karaoke stuff I started with - just couldn't part with them, some of the best speakers Peavey ever made.
If he wanted something smaller he would probably be just as happy with a set of SRM350's. These are Mackies 10" alternative to the 450's. But I still don't agree with studio monitors being used as a PA speaker - which it would be, especially when it gets to being outside, they wouldn't cut it.

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