Karaoke Forums

Ok, it's a new mixer and I finally got a change to drool oever, er, check out a 1640 and 1620.

I'm putting aside the money and plan to pick one up after the first of the year as I prepare for my next season of KJ work (nearly all my work is over 4 months in the summer).

Both are 16 channel analog mixers and will do the job. The basic question is:

1. Do I go with the 1620 that offers stereo input on a single fader or with the 1640 that would require me to subgroup a pair of channels for the stereo channels to fade together?

2. Is the ability to turn the outputs to come out of the bottom a necessary feature for rack mounting equipment?

The basic differences are the 1640 offers 6 aux channels instead of 4, all seperate channels instead of pairing up 4 of them for 2 stereo inputs.

Keep in mind that I do mostly karaoke shows with an occasional open mic night, wedding, or DJ set. There is a large number of live bands locally which I might venture into doing sound for but I haven't pursued anything in that direction at this point. I'm trying to figure out of the additional features on the 1640 are worth the extra $500 or so... and if by grouping the two channels to a subgroup I lose anything.

And yes, in case you're wondering, I found the 1620 for $551.... the 1640 is about $1100 (I still need to double check the price on the 1620 but that's the listed price in the catalog!)

Hello..

What Mixer do you currently have??

I just picked up a Mackie 1604VLZpro. I looked at all the mixers out there that are rack mountable / Price compared too...
I really didn't see/hear a differnce in the Onyx board to make it worth the extra chunk of change. I know that the Onyx is to replace the VLZpro series, but I actually thought that the VLZ performed better with the XDR preamps.

I have a Rackmount line mixer that I use to mix dual stereo outs from my computer to 2 mono inputs. One thing That I've found on a lot of boards that offer a stereo input with one fader on the channel, is that the sound doesn't go to or is truely assignable to a sub group fader. It bypasses and goes straight out to the the left and right main outs. This was completely undesireable for me. I want tweeks with the channel settings, and use the sub group faders for mixing and manual crossfades ect...
This is something to check into with the Onyx rigth in front of you. Don't ask a sales person or make a phone call, because a sales person will most likely not know and will try to tell you what you want to hear.

I've voiced my opinion on running in stereo for live performances versus Mono, so I won't even go there in this post.. ...

Hope I'm giving you a little food for thought...
Take Care..
DonKaraoke

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Don't just say it.... Sing it...

The 1620 is going to be more than enough for your needs. The 1640 is designed more for live band gigging. These are going to be the replacements for the VLZ series as they add a better eq section & the optional firewire port for hooking up to the computer for recording.

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I've done quite a bit of research on these boards myself and I gotta go with Lonman the 1620 will me more than enough for your needs. The 1640 will actually probably be worse off because all of the chanels are preamp chanels where as the 1620 stero chanels do not have the preamp on them. Most karaoke players do not require preamps and even though the onyx series preamps are supposed to be the best yet it's still just another way to add noise to your signal. Oh yeah and let me know where you saw the 1620 for 551 cause I'm ordering one tomorrow if it's true.

No doubt, the best i've ever seen them for is $701. I've seen the firewire card go as high as $550.

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I'm currently using a SoundCraft Compact 10 mixer which works VERY well for recording, but lousy for live sound (no aux sends - can't use my Peavey Twin DeltaFX right now or any other effects). If the Onyx is everything they say it is and the Firewire works as well as expected I might have a Compact 10 up for sale REAL soon.

I'll call Monday to verify the price on the 1620 mixer. I looked it up at least 5 times in the catalog to be sure that's what I saw though. Their website list the 'standard' price at $779 - the same as MusiciansFriend and most other online sites. The 1640 is showing at $1299 at most of those sites and I was quoted just over $1100 in the store. You still pay for shipping but I was quoted $80 to ship a pair of JBL Eon 15 G2's to Alaska from their store in Florida. About the same as I was quoted to ship 6 25' mic cables from Musicians Friend.

The Firewire option card is carrying a street price of right at $400 at almost every place I've checked. If you're price is higher than that I'd look elsewhere.

Main differences:
The 1620 only has 4 aux sends (as opposed to 6), doesn't offer any subgrouping, or the ability to mount with the outputs on the bottom (semi-permanent rack mounting). Both only offer 2 Hi-Z inputs to avoid the use of a DI box. The 1620 has 8 mic inputs, and 4 stereo channel inputs, the 1640 has 16 mic inputs. BTW, the 1640 is also a MONSTER. It's 14U+ out of the box and only drops to 12U when you mount the outputs to come out of the bottom (creating a mounting depth of about 8-10"). If the outputs come through the top side of the mixer it jumps to 17U of rack space.


Droning monologue follows:
Since I've made some poor decisions in the past (by ignoring the recommendations of Lonman and others) I'm trying to avoid doing that again but I'm a little nervous about having to 'upgrade' again in 6 months. The 1640 is a REAL nice mixer, but is it really worth nearly twice the price (assuming the prices are correct I have)? Guess if the price on that mixer (1620) is really that good then I might just go that route for my Christmas present...


Additional question:
One other question I have deals with those that actually DJ and beatmix. For mixing between turntables do you use your standard mixers or do you use a mixer w/ a crossfader for those events? This is something I'm just starting to get asked to possibly provide support for so I'm wanting to review my options...

Well If you are mixing between two turn tables a regular board really isn't a problem you just lower the fader on one channel while raising the other. Now if you are into to scraching or heavy mixing then you're gonna need the DJ style mixer with crossfader. The other thing I can tell you to look into is, if you are PC based like myself, Traktor DJ Studio. It's a little pricy coming in at about $250 but it's an excellent piece of software for a DJ and I would never use anything else again. You can basically hook your pc straight into the mixing board on one stereo channel and the software handles the beat matching and crossfade for you. I've actually run entire nights where I touch the pc only to enter requests. The software lets you setup a playlist ahead of time, and you can automate the rest. It has a pretty steep learning curve if you never worked with intense DJ setup before but as long as you RTM you'll be fine. Good Luck.

The 1640 Onyx is a sweet mixer, great features, nice innovative design, but as far as karaoke(or a small live band) is concerned, it's way overkill. The CFX or the VLZ series are far better suited for the purpose. Let me explain my position.

The Onyx preamps specs are great, they are designed for recording. Through a PA speaker you will know the difference between the CFX, VLZ or Onyx.

The same applies to the EQ section, nice job on design, but the extra quality will be lost on your application. The CFX mixer has a Master EQ(Graphic) in addition to the Channel EQ's. This is a feature that is very useful in our situation. It allows you to EQ the room from one EQ rather than changing each channel when you sound is not quite right.

Control room features are nice if you use monitors, but can be done with the CFX.

Talk back feature is only for recording through headphones, so you can talk to the musicians in the studio.

The Onyx series do not have built in effect, the CFX series do.

One more thing, while it's nice to have 16 Channels, a 12 Channel mixer should be more than enough.

As far as the FireWire option, there are cheaper (and sometimes better) ways to get the signal from your mixer to your hard drive.

IMHO, you’d do a lot better with a Mackie CFX12(or 16) than an Onyx 16**, it's a cheaper and better suited for your needs. I know few guys that use the CFX series and I never heard a complaint, I've been to their shows and they have great sound.

Again, the 1620 is going to be more than enough for most karaoke needs. I have the CFX12, & while it is a great board, it's too small for my applications. I run 4 mics, 3 players (2 laser & 1 cdg), computer & 2 effects returned to channels instead of returns. I actually have to use a y-connector on the computer & the cdg player to get my extra channels I need. The 1640 is designed after the 1604VLZ to be a hard core live band board with digital recording connections via the Firewire.
As far as the eq sections on the channels going to be overkill (they are 4 band high, high-mid, low-mid & low with a swept low-mid & high-mid) - no way, you will notice the difference on almost any system because you will be able to fine tune even deeper than on a standard 3 band eq with 1 swept mid. The BIGGEST drawback (not a huge deal but still) is on the stereo channels they only incorporate a 3 band eq which really surprises me.
It is true you will need external processors for effect & external multi'band eq's.
For karaoke the 1640 would be a killer board, but is not worth the extra money. 6 Aux sends - that's great, how many effects are you sending & how many monitor sends are you sending??? If it's not more than 3 (or even 4) combined, the 1640 would be overkill. If you run live sound with your karaoke system as well, then you may want the extra "single" channels instead of the 4 stereo channels.

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I'll be adding seperate eq's for feedback control/eq'ing the room. Why would I want a 5 channel built in eq when I'll be adding in a pair of 31 band eq's?


I will be using monitors but the control room features will likely remain unused.


I already have a Peavey Twin DeltaFX effects processor. Why would I want to use built in effects when I already have an external effects processor?


If you look at the 1620 it's technically an 8 mono channel, 4 stereo channel mixer - 12 channels. I'm already running 2 CDG players, a DVD player and occasionally I also run a laptop for music between the singers. That's one of the reasons I bought the Compact 10 - because of the high number of stereo inputs. Even after I move to a PC based show I'll use 2 computers, and at least one external player. The flexibility to use the additional channels if I need to is desirable. For the cost of an external mic mixer to upgrade an existing mixer I can almost buy the 1620.


Perhaps, but it's a seperate option. I already have a SoundCraft Compact 10 for recording but it doesn't work well for live music.

I'll make the call tomorrow to get the final cost (including shipping) for both of them. I'll also look through both manuals and think long and hard about exactly what I'm wanting out of the mixer. The 1640 is nice, but it's HUGE. That alone might be enough to disuade me from buying it )14+U's of rack space/12U+10" of mounting depth might be an issue.

Well, it's a misprint in the catalog. It is listed for $551 in the catalog I have, but when I called the price was $723 for the 1620 and $1205 for the 1640.

Because you may not have to add a pair of 31 band eq's, the built in 5 band works surprisingly well. Let's see, less wires, less rack space. How would you EQ the monitors?



Once again, less wiring, less rackspace. Mackie's effects are pretty good, I wouldn't put them up against a nice Lexicon or TC Electronic unit, but they hold up against most low end processors, especially if you use them for vocals.

About the price, yeah, 720 is about the cheapest I've seen them. Some places offer free shipping and no sales tax, but that's abaut as good as it gets for now. If you decide to spend for the 1640, check out the Allen & Heath mixers, you can get to the next step in mixers one at the same price range.

The built in eq on the Mackies don't eq the monitors - at least on the DFX/CFX series. You can configure their powered boards to split the eq to the mains & monitor.

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I'm not overly concerned with the wiring. I'll be wiring it up once in a large slant top rack w/ 12U or so down the front. Difficulty in wiring is only going to be an issue if I'm having a problem and troubleshooting. I prefer seperate components over all-in-one units. I find they're usually easier/cheaper to repair and work around when everything isn't in the same box. It also allows for upgrading a single component instead of everything.

Now I just need to find a slant rack w/ 12U on the top and about 12U or so down the front...