Karaoke Forums

So after a successful (yet stressful) night of karaoke, I'm interested in picking your brains. I want to know how you deal with difficult, entitled patrons, and what kind of leeway you have in how firm you can be with them.

To explain, I run a very busy four-hour weekly karaoke show that goes from 9 to 1. Inevitably, on any given week, the bar is a ghost town from 9 to 10, and then very suddenly becomes a raucous, crowded hotspot until close. My rotation has never changed, and my preferred tactic there has been to line up the first 12-15 singers in "first-come, first-serve" order and then insert subsequent singers in between after the first rotation. Duets count as a turn for both singers on the slip - which is a rule I'm willing to break if and only if the night is very slow, which pretty much never happens. My queue is simply too long to have anybody on stage twice before another singer gets up once - it's simple, and fair, and I'm very transparent about how I run my show and always have been.

Well, I think I let the people get to me. Girl puts in a song relatively early on, in such a way that she would be the second singer in the second rotation, which doesn't seem like a particularly long time to wait for me, but she continues to bug me about it. She's submitted Kid Rock & Sheryl Crow's ubiquitous "Picture" as a duet with her boyfriend, and with each subsequent singer she's becoming more impatient. Finally, she comes up to my table and explodes. "FINE. I'll sing Alanis Morrissette. HAPPY? Now when am I up?" I inform her that she's still up at the same time, a change in song does not mean a change in position. I'm not sure where she got the idea that I was simply holding off on her song because I didn't like it, but there you go. (I mean, I DON'T like it, but she had no way of knowing that.) This chick starts to berate me, practically frothing at the mouth as she informs me that I'm the worst karaoke guy she's ever seen. I make her angrier by reacting nonchalantly, smiling and responding with "you and I both know that's not true."

After her little tirade, she asks me when she's singing. I smile and respond: "come on, now, do you think you're singing at my show after that outburst? Your slip was thrown out the first time you cussed me out." She leaves in a huff, no big deal. One D-bag per night? No problem, I can handle that.

Next guy shows up, hands me a song slip with a five-dollar bill tucked beneath it. I accept the slip and return the money. He responds, "how much to jump the line?" I politely inform him that it doesn't work that way, and he sweetens the pot with two more dollar bills. Now, this guy's ready to lay seven whole dollars down to get his song bumped up, which would be tempting if I were 13, but I politely decline, informing him that no, I don't do bribes. Exasperated, he digs into his pocket, pulling out ANOTHER five, which he tosses atop the pile of crumpled bills, and huffs "there, are we good now?" Again I decline. He's angry now. "What the (expletive), man, what do you WANT from me?" I tell him he can wait his turn. This is not an option for him, and he's cussing me out, calling me a moron for turning down his lofty cash reward, and finally, I break, and say, "what you're asking is that I do my job incorrectly. If I'm going to do my job incorrectly, it's gonna take a hell of a lot more than your lunch money to do it. Now... can you afford to pay me enough money to do my job wrong, or are you going to wait your (expletive) turn?"

He, too, leaves in a huff.

Finally, a first-timer that had been impatient about her turns all night turned on me in the final hour of my show. We're about 25 minutes from closing. She sings her song - credit where credit's due, she's a damn good singer - and immediately comes up to my table while the next person sings.

"When's my duet up?"
"I don't think I actually had a duet for you..."
"Oh, here it is, it's under Eric. So that's up next?"
"Well, unfortunately, I'm gonna have to retool my rotation here a bit. I didn't realize you were singing this song."
"No, it's Eric's song. But it's 'Picture', it's a duet, so I'm gonna sing it with him."
"I understand, but I have a very long list of people that haven't sung at all."
"I... wait, are you not gonna let Eric sing?"
"Eric can sing. That's fine, because it's Eric's turn. But you literally JUST sang."
"So what? I was good."
"It's not a question of quality--"
"I've never heard of anything like this. What kind of show do you run here where your best singer can't help another singer out?"
"Let me explain it to you very carefully: it is very late in the evening and you just sang a song. You are now asking me to sing another song directly after your most recent song. I have all these people also waiting to sing, some of whom haven't sang a single song tonight. It would be a very bad look for me to put you on stage twice before some of these people get up once. It's an issue of fairness. So Eric can sing a different song, or sing that song with somebody else, because I want to be fair to him as well, but I'm not going to put you up twice that close together."
"That literally makes no sense to me."
"Then you're probably not very smart."

....and she left in a huff.

These were just the three most egregious examples. When people are entitled, and impatient, and start taking it out on you, how do YOU handle it? What kind of leeway do you have to tell people to get stuffed, and when do you deploy it? I'm aware that calling a patron dumb is probably not the best way to go about things, but does anyone ever annoy you so intensely that you say something regrettable?

Ahhhh.... the wonderful world of Karaoke. Fun ain't it? Seriously though, the most important advice I could possibly give you in regards to how you run your rotation is to be consistent!
I have been offered in excess of 100.00 to bump someone to the top so they could sing or they wanted to hear someone else sing again but not wait.

It's becomes very annoying, as you stated, but comes with the territory unfortunately. People are very impatient in today's society and want everything and demand everything NOW!! Perhaps posting your rules for rotation in your song books would help as well.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I've been singing karaoke for 20+ years.

I've been hosting for 10+ years.

I simply have never understood penalizing someone for singing with their friends.

It makes no sense to me for the simple fact that it doesn't matter how many people sing a song, it still takes the same time.

My method is One name = one turn = one song.

Your turn, your choice. You want to sing solo? Great. You want to bring someone to sing a duet? Great. You want five of your friends to sing along on stage? Cool, who gets a mic?

I want to encourage people to sing and be social as much as possible. I explain this to everyone who attempts to put in a song for a duet or a group. Occasionally, if the individuals involved in the first song (together) are coming up for their spot in the list, I'll put a confirmed solo in between them... but not all the time.

Sometimes, people will see a person do a song and then join in (invited) on another song and they'll question it. Not one single person has ever become angry or abusive when I point out the list (always visible in its entirety) and indicate their position and how it hasn't changed because of the song that is being sung.

As far as bribes go, I literally laugh out loud at people who hand me money and ask to be bumped up. While laughing, I'll pull out my lucky $50 bill and say that I just outbid them and I'm going to take their place in line. Now, I can't honestly say that my little routine doesn't make some people mad at me... but if you don't understand my sarcasm, that's not my problem.

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Never the same show twice!

I think the OP did fine on his rules and I applaud him sticking to them under pressure.

Putting the rules in the book is a good idea. Explaining how your rotation works in your book is good as well.

Borrowing from the late great Dale Carnegie it never hurts to follow these principles in dealing with an angry person...

1) No matter how hard it gets, allow the other person to speak till they are completely done venting. Just listen calmly and respectfully.

2) When they finish, tell them you understand how they feel and that you would probably feel the exact same way if you were in their shoes.

It's not a lie, because if you were in their shoes, you would be a totally different person with a whole different set of life experiences.

3) Calmly explain why your rule exists and suggest that they come earlier next time so they could get another song in.

I agree with sticking to a consistent rotation. Do you know how many times I've heard "Can you please get me up next, I have to leave". Two hours later, they're still here. I thought you had to leave? Oh, I changed my mind.

I will not accept bribes either. You can wait your turn like everyone else.

As far as turns, I don't care who sings on someones turn. For example, if it's Mary's turn and she wants to sing with Joan, that's fine. And if Joan is up next and she wants to sing with Mary, that's fine too. It's their individual turn anyway, whether they sing alone or with someone else, who cares, they're still using their turn. Now, if I was given a slip that says Mary and Joan, I'll tell them, who's name do you want me to put this song under. It can only be under one persons name. And that's what I do. Treat everyone fairly, and don't play favorites.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

When I go out as a singer, I hate seeing the same person sing multiple times before I get to sing because they keep getting up for duets and that holds true whether they are really good and whether it's a true duet or not.

so, question about that BigJer, would the correct answer in your eyes to be to tell the other singers that want their friend up that they do not get to sing? i ask because a great number of people begin singing karaoke and become the new generation by getting up to sing with a friend next to them as their training wheels.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I like the OP's method and answer. They can sing a solo. They can sing with someone else who hasn't sung that round.

They could sing the scheduled duet the next round with it counting as a duet for both singers.

Go out as a singer and find a show that allows the duet divas to come up constantly. See how you feel as a singer as you see them come up constantly before you get a turn.

I've been to shows like that where I got there 30 minutes before the show started. Ended up 10th in the rotation and only sang twice all night while people who came in 2 hours or more after I did gamed the system so they sang 5-6 times.

Do you think I ever went back there?

As I stated above, at my shows, everyone gets ONE turn per rotation. What they choose to do with it is their business. If the next 5 singers who get up all want to have Mary join them on their turn is fine with me. She is not taking a turn away from anyone. Saying that someone shouldn't sing more than once per rotation or that a duet counts as a turn for both singers is just being anal.

I've been doing it this way for years and never had one complaint. People get it. No harm done, no one gets hurt. And everyone is treated fairly at my shows. Karaoke is supposed to be about having fun. Like I said, stop being so anal and just enjoy.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

You will definitely figure out pretty quickly that you can't please everyone, and some people are definitely not worth the effort. The bottom line is to make your rules well known and follow them 100% of the time with no exceptions. If you have a reasonable system and ask people to respect the integrity of that system, and they don't, then they are the problem, and you don't need them ruining it for everyone else.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Whatever works for you works for you, but I want to make one point.

Many years ago I worked as an assistant manager in the fast food industry. We watched a training film called "Remember Me?"

The key point the film made was that most people aren't confrontational when they have a bad customer service experience. They never say a word. They just don't come back.

My signature line used to read "My job is to keep more people coming back than people leaving and never coming back"

I used to have the duet counted as both person turn until about 2 years ago. I found often the person on the duet slip didn't know they were and lost their regular turn for that round (which isn't fair to that person). Now I will allow a single and ONE duet help per round. If that name comes up again on another persons slips I will then explain that it will need to wait until next round and they can do a solo for this round.
I will also not allow someone to put up a slip ie Mary & Joan, then Joan & Mary. If this is the only way they sing, as a duet - then I consider that one entity and will be treated the same as a single singer.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

i do the first name on the ticket that's their turn. but like others they can only help on one song per round.

i do have one singer that brings in a friend that can't sing well and she always comes up with her and she usually takes lead. at least her friend is getting up on stage and trying. if she was alone i don't think she would even try to sing at all.

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It's all good!

I used to do one person per a rotation. I changed it to one song and one duet on someone else's song. I've had a few that liked to go around and talk people into doing duets on their turn and bringing her up. I also had a group that came in. Each person in the group would turn in a song and they all would try to get up and sing on every song turned in. The one solo and one duet rule helped people that were asked to do duets and didn't want to do them because they didn't want to use up their turn. It seemed to be a happy medium.

First, I totally agree with standing your ground. Otherwise, people will walk all over you. However, the whole duet argument I never understood. I give everyone a slot in the rotation, regardless of who they want singing with them. I figure it's their time, and they can do with it as they please. I don't care if the same singer does 10 duets with 10 different people as long as each slot was for a different person. If someone complains about it, I tell them that if they also want to do a lot of duets, they need more friends willing to share their slot. It encourages people to be better singers (so people will want to sing with them) and also encourages them to bring more friends. Both are good things. I've stood my ground on that rule and it's never been a major issue. If a certain singer really gets out of hand with it, the crowd eventually lets them know in their own way and it doesn't require me to intervene. Again, like many others have said, consistency is the most important thing. You can have different rules, but as long as you're consistent with them and you stand your ground, you shouldn't have any major problems. Accepting money to change the rules may get you a few extra bucks on a couple nights, but eventually you'll lose your gig, and possibly really hurt your reputation and that's something that's tough to recover from.

Exactly. It's their turn. They can do what they want with it.


Agreed! That's why I don't understand why some hosts are so anal about this. And that's why everyone enjoys themselves at my shows.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Because OTHER singer in the audience perceive it differently as this 1 person getting stage time repeatedly before their one time.
I don't want to watch the same person get up over and again with others or the same duet twice (ie Mary and Joan, then Joan & Mary) before I'm up. How is that fair. If Mary & Joan sing as a duet every time - then they are one entity and treated as one slip. I do not mind seeing someone sing then help out someone else for their turns duet - but not more than once.
People try to abuse the situation and get other people to sign up with them just so they get more stage time and end up taking over the song anyway. I've seen places where it goes
Mary
John with Mary
Pete With Mary
David with Mary
Rhonda with Mary, etc...And 9 out of 10 times, those people didn't want to sing with Mary in the first place but agreed, got up on stage and let Mary take over while they ultimately end up sitting down and let Mary finish.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman...

That is an extreme example and quite rare.

The fact is that it may occur 2 or even 3 times in one night at a busy show, or not at all.

If I see that someone is trying to leverage another person's turn, I'll adjust the mix so that the person whose turn it is has prominence. If the person whose turn it is does not sing or gives up the mic... the song fades and the next person comes up.

I see no point in discouraging participation. I can prevent poor karaoke etiquette from having a negative effect by staying vigilant and using my experience to see the scenario you are describing as it may develop and communicating with the singers to avoid negativity.

If someone at the show has a problem and they don't communicate... frankly, I'm to busy doing my job to make their problem my problem.

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Never the same show twice!

I guess like most karaoke, it depends on where you are. I for one personally didn't care, but if I had let ANYONE sing more than once on a busy night, you can be sure as heck I am going to be hearing about it and most likely more than one singer is going to be yelling at me, usually as loud as they possibly can. I'm not the one who gets anal about it, it is the singers around here that do.

that being said, like everyone else, consistency is the most important. If your rule is everyone sings once that it, then stick to that. If you go the other way, then stick with that. As long as everyone knows how you run things ahead of time, if they complain, it isn't your problem.


-James