Karaoke Forums

OK then, how about the Hobbyist KJ, one who is not doing this to operate as a Business, but rather, one who is hosting 1 or 2 shows a week regularly, just to pick up some "Mad Money." There are lots of KJs out there that fall into this category, and they also run a professional show that is comparable to (what you may refer to as) those "Professional KJs." And, they are definitely considered competition to your "Professional" KJ.

Well it would be interesting to see what you classify as professional hosting. There are several different ways to professionally host - high energy in your face to low key and laid back. What will be the qualifications? I for one would not change up the way I host for any reason.
But on the competing thing, as soon as you enter the kj market you are competing even with legit 'certified' hosts. You could come in and say "we just drove out a pirate and got into a club down the street". Ok now that club that had crappy karaoke will have good karaoke that may now take singers away from our place because they didn't want to go there before - that's competition.

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Please notice how Harrington at first dodged the question below, which was:
"... who do you recommend first? ."



Here is the distraction/diversion/deflection:

Here is the REAL answer:



So if they have a "newbie prime member" in your area, "the long-time legal and loyal host with skills tempered by fire" gets screwed.
And these get screwed too -- so which category are you in?:
(1) A Sound Choice Certified KJ;
(2) A Sound Choice GEM series licensee;
(3) A Sound Choice HELP licensee;
(4) A karaoke operator who plays Sound Choice tracks only from original discs;

You're not really surprised are you?
Anyone that actually signs up for this is an idiot in my book.

This is interesting to contemplate but I think the smart play would be to license the content to the venue (threat of lawsuit neutralized) then let them hire their own "kj" whether it be a current kj or an employee of the venue and let them be trained by Prime. The biggest problem with that for all of you guys is that the pay rate is then basterdized to almost minimum wage.

All Phoenix wants is to be paid for their content, doesn't really matter how or who pays it. Would be better to license GEM to 1000 venues for a monthly fee than to sell 100 KJs for a one time fee.

Sure some venues might be interested in this, most would consider it just another headache. Maintaining the system, getting the help, promoting the product, etc. I actually worked one gig like that. They had all the stuff and it was just too much of a hassle for them to use it. they didn't know what they were sold and when I came in I had to sort it all out for it just to be presentable. Told them I could of brought in my gear and kept the price down for them.

All depends on your needs.

Well, I have made my intentions to register my Chartbuster collection quite clear. That will be happening in the next few weeks. That doesn't make me "customer" enough for you not to stomp on my business??



Because as a registered Chartbuster user, I should be considered a "customer" not to be bowled over by the SC machine.


Dang Jim, you a Biggin'!! . I thought I was a big boy.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Because the operative phrase is "Sound Choice customer" and has nothing to do with "Chartbuster."

Nope. Sorry. You're still not "an SC customer" and you haven't purchased anything from them. You are (currently) only a "prospective registrant/licensee" of their "Chartbuster trademark" and nothing more.

Now, if you'd like to work for Jim 'n Kurt as their "employee" instead, pony up a few more bucks ($349 for the first year) and you can "audition" for the honor.

But there's no guarantee there either:Currently, you don't qualify and not a peep about having to be a "Chartbuster licensee".... See how that works?

Sometimes it's not what they say.... it's what they don't say that matters. Words, or the lack thereof, matter.

The decision to enter any particular market will depend on a lot of factors, including what customers of ours--not just SC customers, but our entire customer base--are currently operating.

As I said, I really don't expect to enter your market. To be in a market, there has to be a sort of critical mass to justify allocating resources to that market; your market is very small.

But I also think your situation is fairly unique. Nearly every KJ who provides pub entertainment services uses SC-branded tracks; some more, some less, but almost all of them do to some extent. You are one of the exceptions, of course. I expect that well in excess of 95% of Chartbuster registered KJs, once we get that program fully penetrated into the marketplace, will also be licensed for SC in one way or another. So it's not the sort of situation we're going to have to spend a lot of time worrying about.

To reiterate, however, where we have a Chartbuster Registered KJ who doesn't use SC in an area, that will be a factor in whether we enter a particular market. If we had an opportunity to hire that KJ to fill some shows, we might well do it. We might even work with that KJ to make SC available to them. But for reasons noted above, I expect that situation to occur relatively rarely.



I think "bowled over" is a vast overstatement.



Yeah, the camera adds 10 pounds.

As long as the hobbyist KJ is operating legally, they have nothing to worry about.

I think it's easy to confuse style and skill. High energy versus laid back is a question of style. Skill questions are: Does the KJ know how to set up and run his/her equipment smoothly? Does the KJ effectively deal with the crowd? Does the KJ properly select bumper music? Does the KJ manage the rotation in a way that most will see as fair? Is the KJ effective on the mic? Does the KJ arrive on time and stay through completion of the gig? Does the KJ drink excessively on the job or take excessive breaks? Is the KJ professional in dealing with the customer (the venue) and its personnel?

Whether your hosting style is one way or another has very little if anything to do with your skills as a host or your professionalism in doing the job.

As for your other question, we've hired a working KJ to help us develop and implement our direct services program. We plan to implement the same principles he has successfully implemented in his existing business. One of those principles is that you have to avoid oversaturating a particular area, for precisely the reason you stated.

If one of our licensees has a Tuesday show that competes against a pirate show two blocks away on the same night, such that the situation you've described exists, knocking out that pirate show only to replace it with our own operation doesn't make a lot of sense. There is no need to cannibalize the existing marketplace for singers. So we'd prefer to move that show to a different night. But that would also be true even if the other show isn't one of our licensees.

Part of making this effective is going to be understanding the markets in which we operate. That's one reason why we are looking to PRIME to help us staff up. A KJ's knowledge of a particular area is going to be invaluable in making this work.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe that the use of "professional" is in reference to those that derive most if all of their income from karaoke hosting. It is not a referendum on how you dress or act or the quality of equipment. There are a lot of KJ's that derive all of their income from karaoke, but they aren't very professional. There are a lot of KJ's that do one show a week (or month or year) and they are very professional.

From the PEP Prime page -

You're more than just a weekend KJ.

Your mobile KJ business isn't just a hobby.

You're passionate about what you do, but what you do is a business, not a passion project.

You're a professional.

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-Chris

You have a negative view of this? I'm shocked.

Be careful here. Some of this is rather subjective.

Bumper music isn't used at all shows. Some KJ's play dance breaks, others do not. Some KJ's play 30 secs of bumper and run a slower paced show. Others run 10 secs of bumper and a fast paced show.

Rotation management....what's fair? That alone will generate 100+ responses

Effective on Mic.....One of the most interesting shows I have ever been to was one where the KJ never spoke on mic. When someone finished singing, they announced the next singer. I don't know how he managed to train folks to do that or how it worked with people new to the venue, but it worked all night. Never heard the KJ on mic even once and we had a blast. (fringe scenario though). Point being - like bumper music, some KJ's spend a lot of time on mic, others spend very little. How can that be fairly evaluated?

How can you evaluate how a KJ works with staff and owners without interviewing staff and owners? No one but me should be questioning staff about my style.



Again....somewhat subjective. For 3 years I ran a very successful, well attended, highly profitable show in downtown Seattle. Within 3 blocks of my show were 5 other shows on the same Fri and Sat nights that were also well attended and I imagine, highly profitable for the venues. Some might call that over saturated, but the market and geography sustained it.

I don't like competing against my own shows, but the way I look at it is like this - If I don't take the gig, someone else will. Likely a pirate. So why not take it myself and keep the bar high and pirates out? That is exactly how I explain it to owners as well. If I don't take it, someone else will and you will still have another karaoke show competing against ours.

I have 2 venues with Wed/Sat shows that "compete" against each other right now. Both successful.

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-Chris

I think it's all subjective. The fact that it's subjective doesn't mean it can't be evaluated. We expect that it will be somewhere between a job interview and an acting audition. After all, we'll be hiring people to perform services on our behalf. When you hire a new KJ, what do you look for? I can't imagine our process will be far off that.



It depends on the area--what's the foot traffic, what are the other (non-karaoke) entertainment options, what are the prevailing economic conditions, etc.?

Yes, it IS negative... because it's just another way to shear the sheep in your flock. And I did notice that you didn't seem to "correct misinformation" either...

You think that because Kurt has a history on the "manufacturing side" that he (and you) are somehow "experts?"

The more you try to make this seem legitimate, the more you're tripping over your own tongue...

(with all due respect to J.Clayton) You'll lease your gem series to someone with no gigs i.e. not "professionals only" as it the premise of your gem series - as long as you get a monthly payment.

And when Cueball asked about hobbyists and your "new service," you gave him a non-answer:Which is not an answer at all, it's just noise.
Chris Avis has it right:
You'll tell Cueball what you think he wants to hear about hobbyists and lead him along, but your own statement doesn't qualify him and your website disqualifies him entirely and repeatedly. But I'm sure you'd accept his "Prime payment" any day of the week.

You've been promising "customers" new music for 6 years with zero output. And you've begged for an interest-free loan to finally produce something. (Note how much "customer confidence" was reflected when you were refunding advances.)

You didn't have enough money to make a single disc... but you had enough to buy a trademark? And start this venture, and make training materials and shoot "webinars" and negotiate (disclaimered) "discounts on equipment" with large chain stores and begin a "national booking service?"

And now you want to compete against the same marketplace you've been suing? Namely KJ's and venues? (I would like whatever it is you've been drinking.)

So yes, it's a negative view and it's and educated negative view based on history - your history of broken promises, failed "programs" and lawsuits.

I applaud you Mr Harrington...You are a good lawyer....Master of doublespeak...Mr Slep, your an astute businessman, certainly have secured an accomplished mouthpiece.

I do not like pirating and am on your side in that regard (though I have friends that pirate and sometimes attend my shows). I support you wholeheartedly against pirating. PRIME ULTIMATE, I take strong exception with and I believe many
loyal KJs have issues with that, as well. I am in a large market and because of that it remains to be seen if any Corporate will be interested in me, because I will not be a PRIME ULTIMATE member. Actually, I care little, but others in like markets may care substantially.

I have a show where bumper music is rarely played because singers come there to sing and it is understood that 'next up' to be quicker than other KJs shows (when bumper music is played the next singer may finish their drink or visit before coming up). I mix my BOSE T1 according to the singer's talents and according to the genre chosen and that has proven to be much appreciated. Anytime someone is paid, whether money or drinks, I believe that qualifies as professional. Maybe I am wrong in that. But if a lawyer is listed in the yellow pages, good or bad in practice, I am sure he considers himself a professional.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I don't target bumper/filler music (clarification just long enough from one singer to leave the stage and get the next singer on the stage - not entire songs) for any genre, I have my dj program on an auto shuffle/auto play so it's always playing in the background and will play anything from Cab Calloway to Beatles to Whitesnake to Miranda Lambert to Etta James to Megadeth to ??? Since we don't discriminate on the type of crowds or type of music (ok yes nothing with F-Bombs are allowed), my filler music reflects that as well.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Oh, yeah, while I am at it. I strongly dislike that there are those that have never gone through audit (per your Certified website) yet have leased GEMs as 'protection money'. Holy Water sprinkling. Handshake and pat on the back. Why no audit as well? Not you, Chris. You submitted to audit.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Lonman, I'm only saying that at one particular venue bumper music has proven to give some people reason not to respond in a timely manner. That venue is always 25-45 singers and may go 2 1/2 hours for a rotation. I have folks that do not get up quick enough and leave for another show, even with new singer old singer rotation. When movement is slow I will usually fill time with a quip or maybe a quick joke.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Chip, I am all giddy about what the next layer of business for PEP will be. I am certain it will not have anything to do with production.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?