Karaoke Forums

Just to clarify, you say there is plenty of business to take away from the pirates. What about those who do NOT use the SC Brand?? Are you going to run them out of business? I'm not a pirate. I choose not to use SC. I run a great show, according to the feedback I get. Actually better than most in my immediate area. I have good sound, I make it fun, and I use every brand I can that is not SC. As I have already told you, I WILL be registering my new CB collection, soon. So, uh, what about someone like me?

Let's say I decided NOT to buy CB. Would you be trying to run me out of business, because I don't do business with PEP?? As a matter of fact, I STill will not be using SC, so outside of a $50 registration fee, I am STILL NOT a customer of yours. Does that mean you will work against me? You talk about rewarding your loyal customers, so I ask you, does that mean screwing those who are NOT your customers??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'd be very surprised if we entered your market. But let's suppose for the sake of argument that we did.

Is there some particular reason why you ought to be off-limits? I mean, you've made a vocal point of not being a Sound Choice customer, so why should we not compete against you?

Wow, just wow.

I cant WAIT to see this blow up in your face, When you get to my section of the woods... they will laugh you right out the door. I don't know how much you think you'll take in, but no one around here is making more then $25-$50/hour legally. Nevermind that some people work for tips in some cases.

I use Sound Choice, I have pro gear (Yanno things like Bose and Sure, etc.), been hosting as a KJ forever (not as a side job) and I know exactly how to run my gear correctly. Its STILL a fight to make a fair wage around here. Think anyone you put next to me is going to win just because they have sound choice priduct? Ummm I legally got that stuff too... plus more, good luck.

Also what about those people you settled with? Going to bust down those doors? My friend that you sued you settled with, are they fair game? If they can't pay those monthly fees by doing karaoke work what happens then?

What happens to those people who are just registered under the CB banner? Going to toss them out after you got the money from that?

Here how I see this happening:

Your spotters go into a place and see whats going on. See if the KJ is on your list, etc If hes not, you go sue him and/or the venue. You tell the venue to use your service and you'll drop your lawsuit. Bang KJ is fired and you got a "new spot".

Since you don't have any new product right now, your basically going to make people use 6 year old product, raise rates and sue anyone in the area for one reason or another to make sure your are the only game in town. If this is not gaming the system I don't know what is.

Also, you were looking for handout to make product, now your plan is for people to pay so you can multi rig things all over the country?

You failed at making new product with Advance by falling short of 300+ orders, and that was in house. You have burned KJs all over the country in one form or another, you HAVE NO NEW PRODUCT, and now you think you'll compete with local business because.....?

And I thought that the CB move was bad! You guys are seriously becoming the "Donald Trump" of karaoke. Everything that comes out of the idea bank over there gets more and more insane. I seriously don't know how you guys are still in business other then getting settlement checks to pay the bills.

Seems if your not part of the SC gang, you are an evil pirate that must be destroyed.

Dunno how the CB stuff matches up, but I will think the worst and say they wont consider that part of the SC stuff.

So defensive. So paranoid. So angry. So short sighted.

Just continue doing what you do and do it well and you have nothing to fear. And lets be clear, it is FEAR that has been driving people's opinions on this. Fear that has been continually made front and center by a small number of very vocal anti-SC folks for the past 6 or so years (longer for some).

The smart, reasonable people can see through it and not fall for it. The smart, reasonable people will continue to be successful regardless of how this pans out. Regardless of whether they are certified or not. Regardless of whether they have a GEM or not. Regardless of whether they are PRIME or not. And honestly.... regardless of whether they are a pirate or not. This program is NOT going to turn the karaoke world upside down.

But perhaps it should.....

If there is one thing I have learned in the past 6 years.....some KJ's are successful because of what they do to make themselves successful. Others are "successful" because of completely external factors they have contributed nothing towards. Could be luck. Could be they are the only game in town. But this latter group simply cannot compete at the same level as the folks that put their heart and soul into what they do.

Everyone should have a Plan B. I suggest the folks that are worried about this program start executing it because you should not be doing this anyway.

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-Chris

I am curious...
1. What type of training will PEP PRIME provide to KJs, and how will it be provided?
2. How do you plan to create and determine who these "highly skilled" KJs are?
3. What about the KJ who does NOT run a business, but rather is a Hobbyist (one who does an occasional show)?

Well you answered my question. It doesn't matter that I am going to be a CB registered user. You would come into my area and TRY to take me down. That is a pretty crappy way of doing business. So, it's no different than Walmart coming in and killing off all the Mom & Pop stores.

And you are quite wrong when you say that I am not a customer. I own 38 SC discs, that I BOUGHT with MONEY!! I am not a SC supporter, with all your BS schemes and the different ways you are screwing your "customers". The ONLY reason I am agreeing to register my Chartbuster collection is because it is going to be MUCH more substantial than my SC collection, and the fee is only $50. For me, THAT is worth it, to keep you off my back.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Well, well, well..... Ain't this a fine howdy-do?

I think I'll get myself some popcorn and watch (yet another) "crash 'n burn."


Mr. Harrington: See what happens when you "dump enough poison in the well?"

Smooth move. I can't wait for the next "new program" to pop up.

I'm just wondering if his pants actually did catch fire?

"Loyal customers" means those that are on the "continuing payment plan" because original disc users, who may have purchased thousands of dollars of discs don't count. It's open season on them. Just purchasing the product no longer constitutes "a customer" anymore - paying for an audit, a gem set, a help license, or anything that has a contract and ongoing payments is apparently "a customer."


Well, he's not a customer because you file lawsuits against "your customers" that haven't signed some on-going contract with you -- even if it's just "permission" to use the tracks digitally.

You created this environment to start with, Smoothedge69 did not -- so you can't legitimately blame him for not being your customer, that was your doing, not his. He'd be happy to use the material if he weren't concerned that you wouldn't sue him or the venue for (1) first buying the product and (2) just using it on a laptop. Your problem is that in order for him to use it, he'd have to buy it off Ebay, because (1) you have nothing to sell to him that (2) doesn't come with strings attached -- and that is again, your doing, not his.

Blaming him for your short-shortsightedness is not his problem - it's yours.

How could I have possibly answered your question? My question was a legitimate one: Since you're not a SC customer, at least as far as your commercial operation is concerned, why do we owe it to you not to compete against you?

As I said, I doubt we make it to your area at all, so this is sort of an academic exercise. But the question stands, and I'd like an answer: What is it about you that makes you special, such that merely competing against you is somehow ethically or morally wrong?

For one thing he wants to be a registered Chartbuster member. You want him to pay to register his collection, and then your company will stomp all over his area. If not his, then mine or any other KJ who uses YOUR trademarked product.

2nd no answer on how you treat people who settled with you. Why's that? They don't count? You your own definition settlements are not considered a loss to you, so where is the support for those people?

Every day your company burns bridges. No one wanted a $30 product from you,.now your looking for even more money in the form of things like useless song credits (what product?) Some kind of "training" and your dangling a carrot that MAYBE those people might get called on for a gig. Serously? What about the "average" KJ that pays you money and doesn't get a chance from you? What about HELP licenses and registered/audited users?

Besides the fault that your newest product is a leftover CD from.the GEM series, and people WITH CREDITS are waiting on something to spend them on, your plan has been "we've been working on this for 15 months, watch and see". We have been, and nothing comes out of your house but disappointment, negatively to those that
Who supported you, and lawsuits.

When this fails, and it most likely will, hopefully you will understand that your.not what you were 6+ years ago, and get in line with vendors who are trying to do right by KJs instead of trashing your very source of income.

We'll offer training on a variety of different topics that are relevant to KJs, from business management to audio engineering and everything in between. We're still working out the details on exactly how that training will be conveyed, but it will probably be a combination of articles, videos, webinars, and live workshops, along with a community knowledge base.



There will be an audition process for KJs who want to work for us. We will also be hiring and training system operators to work for us directly.



I'm not really sure how to answer this question. Phoenix PRIME is a program for professional KJs. A hobbyist might get some benefits from membership, especially if the plan is to "turn pro," but it's really not targeted at the hobbyist. If you have a more specific question, I'll be happy to try to answer it.

Mr Harrington, How about answering my question at the bottom of page 2 instead of ignoring it?

Everyone else, it appears to me PEP is floundering and is working every way they can to raise revenue. Apparently there is not enough to get back in the business of producing new tracks which I would have thought would be the primary goal. I do not believe PRIME ULTIMATE to be a major reason for PEP to be comfortable before producing again, as Mr Harrington stated. Otherwise, it would have been implemented before ever stating that they were back in the business of reproduction. So many layers in that business model.

Kimosabe, me think they speak with fork-ed tongue. Get rope!

I was once a proponent of these guys. I now think them to be on par of a shyster and out to fleece those who have become blind sheep.

I was told personally and I have read it here, also, that to go through the audit is beneficial to my business because when passed, it gave me a 'Covenant Not to Sue' agreement, ability to shift media, and mention on their site as having passed audit making me a legal host for securing business.

After reading >>>>

"PRIME BOOKING


Phoenix PRIME PLATINUM members who qualify can participate in our national booking program. Our sales team books shows and "preferred provider" status with both local accounts and national accounts like chain restaurants, corporate and conference events, and large private gigs. We use qualified PRIME PLATINUM members to fulfill those gigs.

That can put money in your pocket and give your business the kind of reach you need to take it to the next level.

It's like having your own national sales staff."

Then they are entering into direct competition with their very customers, KJs. I do not care how you cut that cake it is exactly that and can not be read any differently. Some of you have stated that competition is competition and they are just one more. What if Applebees or Hyatt or any other Corporation contacts them directly and leaves it up to them to book or suggest booking? According to the wording it goes to qualified PRIME PLATINUM members. Therefore, this is another way to fleece KJs forcing them to become PP members. And they still have not 1 new track for sale.

I am so disturbed at them I can not even put it all down in words in one forum entry.

Mr Harrington how about that answer? I want it in plain english and no frickin' doublespeak.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I don't know what section of the woods you happen to operate in, so I couldn't possibly begin to comment on the specific economic conditions there.



I've said nothing of the sort, and I'm not even sure why you would think I'd even think that.



We treat people who settle with us as customers in good standing. We always have. I'm not sure how many times I have to say this, but here it is again: It is not our intention to compete with our customers.



Many of the people who are CB registered are also customers in good standing with SC, so no, no plans to "toss them out."



If a KJ is using pirated materials to make money, I have no problem with or regret about that KJ getting fired. We will not require the venue to hire us, but we will require the venue to hire a legal KJ, or drop karaoke, before the lawsuit will be resolved.



There is only one reason why we sue people: Because they are using unauthorized copies of product bearing our trademark to make money. Whether we have "new" product or not is irrelevant. These people could easily--EASILY--obtain legal copies of our product. We've bent over backward to make it possible for people to use our product legally, but they would rather steal than pay. If you're expecting us to apologize for suing those people, it's going to be a long wait.



We haven't asked anyone for a handout. We asked people to pay in advance for product so that it could get made. Not enough people were willing to do so, and that's fine. We'll still make new product, but it will take longer. But we're not asking anyone for a handout.



What KJs have we "burned"? Please be specific.

Does the word "squirmy" come to mind?

Is there a store that actually sells paddles that only go backward?

I believe I did state it in writing.



We really don't get asked that question very often, but the answer is always the same.

You are welcome to hire any of the following hosts without worrying about being sued by us:

(1) A Sound Choice Certified KJ;
(2) A Sound Choice GEM series licensee;
(3) A Sound Choice HELP licensee;
(4) A karaoke operator who plays Sound Choice tracks only from original discs; or
(5) A karaoke operator who does not use Sound Choice tracks at all.

The list on our website identifies categories 1 and 2 as well as anyone in category 4 who has signed up with us. We will be expanding the website list to include category 3 very soon. That list will also identify PRIME and PRIME PLATINUM members as well as Chartbuster Certified and Chartbuster Registered KJs.

Signing up for PRIME won't get you on that list; before you can sign up for PRIME, you have to be on the list first.

When we book shows as part of our own business, we will fill those shows with the best available fit. We will use PRIME PLATINUM members for that purpose, but that does not mean someone who isn't a member is ineligible to be hired.

Mr Harrington,

I was watching your interview for the Karaoke Q&A podcast discussing Phoenix Prime where I saw mention of your latest lawsuit in Texas. I looked up the complaint in the suit and noticed this addition to your complaint that I hadn't seen before:

This has me wondering a few things.
Is the Phoenix Prime program a tool to strengthen your lawsuits and ability to obtain injunctions?
Would you need a Phoenix Prime member in each market that you sue in to make those claims?
Would this allow your licensees to join your lawsuits as co-plaintiffs?

Here's the link to the podcast for those interested:

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KNOW THYSELF

Phoenix PRIME has nothing to do with lawsuits or injunctions. It also has nothing to do with Direct Services per se, except that one aim of PRIME is to create a pool of qualified operators we can hire.

The fact that we offer direct services--something we've done for many years, on a small scale--does potentially affect the lawsuits. Some defendants have incorrectly alleged that because they don't compete with us directly, we aren't entitled to damages based on unfair competition. That's incorrect for two reasons: First, we do compete directly with pirates. Second, direct competition isn't required to prevail in an unfair competition lawsuit.

We are ramping up our direct services offerings as part of our long-term business strategy, not merely to strengthen our lawsuits.



No.



It would be difficult for licensees to join in our lawsuits because they don't own any of the intellectual property at issue. At least one federal court of appeals--the Ninth Circuit--has said that licensees do not have standing to sue infringers of the licensed intellectual property. The case is Sybersound v. UAV Corp., if anyone's interested. I'm not saying it could never happen, just that it would be difficult.

Without all the cutting and pasting (I got things to do):

1) Location: Yes, I don't leave any breadcrumbs about where or who I am on ANY website, not just here. Call it too much non trust in internet security in general. Trust me when I say you will sure be in my neck of the woods.

2) Local Competition: You have said a lot of things (Reference to Smoothedge69 here) That you have no problem setting up shop near him if it was worth your while, even when he explained his plan to buy MORE CB product and register with you. You haven't said what constitutes a fair distance so for all most of us know, 50 feet might be just far enough to set up shop for you.

3) Settlements: I actually know someone (Now their family) who Settled with you. They did that because it was actually cheaper then to fight it out (among other reasons) They got crickets now... No Notice about Chartbuster registration, No notice about what they can/can't do. No contact with them AT ALL. I can go on, but the bottom line is other then making sure you get a check every month, they have ZERO clue what to do with things. This is helpful to them HOW?

4) Chartbuster: EVERYTHING you have said states Sound Choice, not PEP product, and nothing in your material about Chartbuster. Your response to my post was the first I have seen anything about it. Chartbuster is your headache now: PEP bought the Trademark, PEP collects the money, PEP is enforcing the trademark. People who don't own SC but CB want to feel they are not going to have an issue with your service.

5) Spotters: I think its fair to say, I have always supported your stance on pirates. But I didnt use that actual word. I said if that KJ isn't on your list. It could mean a pirate, or it could just mean a company who isn't using SC/CB/PEP products. and I'm sure your optimum outcome would be to force a venue into using your services if they get caught in your cross-hairs.

6) Suing KJ/Venues: My friend DID have legitimate copies of their CDGs. Yes they were wrong to "media shift" as you say, they bought every one of those CDs, so there was no "theft" but nothing was done to help them, so they are paying for that now, so much for bending backwards after the audit was performed. Many venues don't know about their hires, people tend to hire in good faith that the KJ on the other end is legal. I wouldn't put this tactic past you to clear the field around your Prime venues.

7) Handouts: You were the one tossing the word "Crowdfunding" about when it came to making new products, not us. You've been around for 30 years... and you were thinking that donations from people was an answer.

#8 Burning KJs: This is simple, all those lawsuits against people like my friend, tends to leave a bad taste in their mouths. The lack of help afterwards doesn't smooth over the situation. While I really don't care what a pirate feels, I tend to feel that those people who felt they were "OK" and thinking they did the right thing might not be so hot to spend more money with you. I'm sure my friends situation was not a unique one.


As for your post shortly after your line by line response to me (To Dvdgdry) you list off 5 types of people who venues can hire without fear of being sued, and again, you didnt list those who settled and are in good standing or Chartbuster uses who have registered. Remember that you have 2 products to support now (your choice, not ours) and maybe you should amend your answers to PEP product users that are in good standing

And finally... hows that Chartbuster registration advertising doing? I haven't seen or heard anything personally, so I guess that got lost again.... So your intent to inform the public... in process??

Edit: Removed the emoji for #8

Baloney.... pure baloney. You've barely been in business a year, so "many years" is out the window. I also doubt that it's "something you've done" at all on any scale.

Where's all your loyal supporters (other than chrisavis) ready to jump on this new venture? Bazza? InsaneKJ? Hall Kinney? Alex Doll? Athena? Sandman? Any of the other KJ's that might work for someone else (like InsaneKJ) that want to "work on their own?"

And I love the BS about "discounts" on equipment..... because they are disclaimered-away....
I can make all kinds of promises too, as long as I include a similar disclaimer.

It's another BS program that does nothing but help their lawsuit machine.