Karaoke Forums

"Subscribe to?" You have enough money for "subscriptions?" Oh yeah, that's right. You have enough money to do this.. and buy trademarks, and sue venues, but too poor to make a single disc.. unless KJ's finance that for you, got it...
No, you haven't. Your business has been in operation barely a year. Next thing you'll say is "your company made music" which it also hasn't. Your "partner" used to make music in his former (now closed) business. For which you are simply leasing old inventory... of old music.
Good luck... Because "high quality KJ's" require decent money.
You haven't angered me a bit... as a matter of fact, it's quite comical to see you and Kurt thrashing around every desperate attempt you can at making money with
K.A.P.A. (failed, abandoned)
An audit fee (contract)
Safeharbor program (contract)
Certified KJ's (contract)
Gem series licensees (contract)
Advance Tin Cup Program (getting the back back together on someone else's dime)
And of course now,
Prime program (contract) and
Platinum level? (contract)

And now you want them to PAY "a small yearly fee" to get booked by you?...

Interesting that I don't have to pay a dime in the form of an "annual fee" to get booked by local agencies... as a matter of fact, THEY ASK ME how much money I need to make for a gig, they don't set my rate.
Logic: Buy the product from the the company (who are licensed only by the the company) and they won't sue you for not buying from the company in the first place. You can exchange "the company" for "goombas" and tell me that's not some form of "protection money."

It amazes me that you don't seem to have any problem undercutting or cutting out your own "certified" or "authorized" customers... Tell me what happens when a venue wants to hire one of your "certified" KJ's that's not a "prime member"... Are you planning on undercutting them, or just keeping your own "employee KJ" out of work, or offer the gig to the certified KJ at "your rate" and if they don't accept it, undercut them anyway?

You are seriously going into business against your own customers? Brilliant! Leave no well un-poisoned!
It wouldn't be pride, it would be ethics. I know you're unfamiliar with the word, so I'll simply suggest you look it up... But I doubt that would help.

I'm sure you will...
Contrary to your belief, that statement wasn't for your benefit, it was for any KJ's that might even have an inkling that this might somehow benefit them. Even as an "independent contractor" they need to check their own state's laws and if necessary, make sure that the worker's compensation insurance is being paid for. I'd hate to see some KJ not know that they are covered for this kind of bodily harm should they injure themselves loading/unloading equipment, or a drunk throw a bottle, swing a mic, or heaven forbid take a poke at a KJ in the heat of a bar fight. And no, the company cannot push that financial responsibility off on the KJ or general liability insurance either.

KJ's should check with their local entertainment agencies and see the difference. I think this is beyond stupid.

B-I-N-G-O-!

GIVE THE MAN A CEEE-GARRRR!

Make sure they run right into those venues that ran you out.....


I'm sure it' all just to "make the industry better!"

It would be nice if it came with a group insurance program and membership to a prepaid legal service.

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KNOW THYSELF

plus the $250 for certification which is required to join Prime for another $349 which equals $599

You may have something to offer, but i can not at the moment wrap my head around how being in the karaoke show business against your customers benefits us at all. we have two choices as it appears, join or do not join. pay the yearly fee or you will do your best to help our local competition that ARE paying the yearly fee to take our shows.
this seems to just (@$%&#!) on the good guys that don't pay. "you're legal, you're certified, but you aren't paying us every year so piss off and get out of the way for the REAL host. we did what you asked and now we get pissed on because we won't do more?
how is this a positive move for anyone but PEP and those that pay indefinitely?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I think the point that was trying to be made is that, while it IS true that they are not attempting to actually establish a franchising protocol, it could appear that they are pushing the boundaries of what would APPEAR to be franchising, exploiting the benefits of general franchise practices, etc...

PRIME = Bad idea

What a slap in the face of those who have supported you ! ! !

You now wish to compete against me (Unless I pay for your help) when I'm one of only 2 in the state of Colorado who have voluntarily entered and passed your audit. The rest did not pass, they just paid 'protection' money for the GEMs. I thought that was why you posted Certifieds on your site.

You can KMA ! I don't want your help.

Chip is right about you guys constantly changing your business model. PEP is apparently floundering. Constant change gives the illusion of progress. You guys have so many layers it must now be beyond your abilities to actually produce any new music.

Where are the promised new tracks? You should have at least produced for a year before embracing the asinine.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I posted this to another forum earlier......

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-Chris

Chris, you miss the frickin' point.

What they are doing is unconscionable. They reward the bad son (the liar, the thief, the sneak) to the detriment of the loyal one. This is just another way for that to occur.

They won't take my business. They may make it difficult for others to secure a new one that just opens up.

I'm going to say something out of character for me. Get your head out of their arse occasionally.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

What point? It is exactly because my head is not up my (@$%&#!) that I am not jumping to conclusions about the program.

The knee jerk reactions to this program are wide and varied. I am reserving my opinion of it until they go live and we know more about it. From what I know now, there is nothing for LEGITIMATE KJ's to be concerned with whether they are SC supporters or not.

Why?

Because I will always be competing against someone. Whether it is a pirate, a legitimate host, or PEP makes no difference to me. I know I can compete.

Do you really believe that PRIME KJ's are even going to be stiffer competition than the folks you compete against now?
Do you really believe that PEP PRIME KJ's are going to be able to take a gig from you? Or prevent you from getting into a new gig?
Do you really believe venue owners are going to be tuned into all of this at a level that it will make any difference to them?

I have 3 GEM's (Paid for protection by your definition). I also VOLUNTARILY did an audit and passed (before getting GEM's btw). I paid up front for *6* Advance discs (and received my prompt refunds when requested).

I have a lot more invested in SC/PEP than most and I don't have any problem at all with what I have seen about the program so far. I may sign up for PRIME just to get the discounts and other benefits. Hell, I may even leverage the marketing and placement services if I believe I can learn something in the process. But for now I am perfectly happy with how I pick up and retain customers.

We will all know more in a week and even more in a year if the program is still around.

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-Chris

I think you may have misunderstood. We're not interested in competing against our legitimate licensees or in taking any work away from you. Far from it. If anything, we hope you'll benefit from what we're trying to do even if you don't join PRIME.

Is that in real time or Sound Choice/Pep time?
Those of us over fifty will probably be dead and buried before they release a new song or get this off the ground.

Chris, if you can not see how PRIME is just another way of passing blessings upon the bad son, then far be it from me to show you.

Then, if you will look on PEPs site under Certified KJs and CO for Colorado you will notice only two have passed an audit. The rest did not submit to one so that was protection money for the GEMs. The other host, also secured the GEMs though he went through an audit and passed, so he did not pay protection money for the GEMs. He proved legality.

Nothing in my post said anything about your involvement with Certifications. ASSUME all you want.

Again, my point is that PEP is unconscionable, unscrupulous, and have proven to me willing to stoop to the same depths as those they sue.

As far as competition goes, I'm glad for you. I feel I am there also. This is about another layer of their business model. And it is total Caca.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

So, 1) If I do not join PRIME and 2) a venue asks of you, "Who is OK to hire on your list", I will get equal consideration (since I am audit legal) to one you have in your PRIME fold?

How is it not going to be a sprinkling of more Holy Water on a previous pirate and at the same time a spanking of a long-time loyal, yet not a member of PRIME ? I believe PEP would pray the Mafia Don into Heaven.

Chip is right about you guys constantly changing your business model. PEP is apparently floundering. Constant change gives the illusion of progress. You guys have so many layers it must now be beyond your abilities to actually produce any new music.

Where are the promised new tracks? You should have at least produced for a year before embracing the asinine.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Yes, of course.



You're misconstruing the purpose of PRIME. The direct services initiative is separate from PRIME, and when we have work to hire out, we'll hire it out to qualified KJs whether or not they are members of PRIME. The purpose of PRIME is to provide KJs with professionalism tools: training, equipment discounts, music discounts, business benefits, etc., to help them become better at the job. Hopefully this will also build us a pool of very skilled KJs to draw on when the time comes, but it's not like we're handing out work to unskilled people who happen to pay us.



We're not changing our business model. We're opening a new business line, which we view as critical to the success of the existing business model. We are working on making new music, and we see some key opportunities opening up in that space. But we are perfectly capable of working on multiple things at a time.



I hope we would never "embrace the asinine," whatever that means.

But let's be frank for a moment. There are lots of people who are perfectly willing to have us invest our resources in new production, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouths are, things suddenly get very quiet. And that's fine, of course. We have to be very careful about where we put our resources. If we could guarantee to sell 1,000 copies of every new track we put out, that would be a no-brainer; we'd have new music in a week or two. But we're very far from that sort of guarantee. There are already several companies who can produce those same tracks at an acceptable level of quality and who can afford, for various reasons, to take the hit if they don't sell very many copies. If it's bugging you that we aren't producing right now, go buy from them. I won't be offended, because this is business.

And so is what we're doing. If we can build up a market for our tracks that exists on terms we can be comfortable with, it makes more sense for us to return to production. With PRIME, we are looking to create a group of karaoke operators who are highly skilled, who have high-quality equipment, who run their businesses like businesses, who don't pirate their materials, and who have a close association with our brand. If that already describes you, that's great! Maybe you don't need to join PRIME. We will still treat you like part of the family.

I realize that what we've been doing for the past 15 months might seem like madness, but there is a method to it. We have a very clear picture of where we are going. I encourage you to reserve judgment at this point.

Just to reiterate, we have zero interest in competing for work against the hosts who have been our loyal customers. There is plenty of business to take away from the pirates.

Phoenix PRIME PLATINUM members who qualify can participate in our national booking program. Our sales team books shows and "preferred provider" status with both local accounts and national accounts like chain restaurants, corporate and conference events, and large private gigs. We use qualified PRIME PLATINUM members to fulfill those gigs.

Mr Harrington, then you need to reword the above statement taken off your site.

Full Definition of asinine

1
: extremely or utterly foolish <an asinine excuse>

2
: of, relating to, or resembling an (@$%&#!)

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I looked over the information on the PEP website. For now I am not interested in joining Prime.
But that could change who knows what else they can offer. As for all of the other speculation I am
reserving my judgment. I don't think it will impact my business.

That statement is perfectly true, and not in need of rewording.

The fact that we will use qualified PRIME PLATINUM members for that purpose does not mean that we will not also use others. You're reading marketing materials for that program, which are designed to tout the benefits of that program.

I do not think it will impact any of my current business either. But it just might for a one time Corporate affair that a Corporation wishes or for that matter even an Applebee's that might wish a weekly gig, especially if they contact PEP before I even know of an opening.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Then state it in writing. Otherwise, this is just a way of coercing KJs to sign up to fleece many of us again.

So, I'm waiting on the definitive answer. If it is asked of you by a Corporation who is OK to secure as a host for their event or events, who do you recommend first? The PRIME PLATINUM member with newly acquired skills (even if a prior pirate) or the long-time legal and loyal host with skills tempered by fire ?

In the past it was presented to us that proving legality was beneficial for mention on your site just for the benefits of What you now offer for PRIME PLATINUM members, namely securing gigs.

_________________
You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?