Karaoke Forums

We are rolling out an advertising campaign this week that will include a blast email to our marketing lists. We will be promoting the new registration program at Mobile Beat in a couple of weeks. We're also planning a paid campaign via our Facebook page and an effort to reach out to various karaoke-related Facebook groups. And we're open to other ideas about how to promote this.

Once we've done all we reasonably can to get this out, we have a further step we'll be taking to make sure individually targeted operators have the opportunity to avoid being sued, but that will be a "last chance, last minute" situation for each individual. If you know about the program and have your discs, we strongly recommend not waiting to register until then.

We have not set a date for beginning the CB lawsuit process. What's most likely to happen in the beginning is adding on CB to SC lawsuits. I'm not prepared to give you even a firm estimate for when the CB lawsuits will start, but I would say 3-6 months from now would be a reasonable timeline.

The JB-199 may not have come with a built-in CD tray, but it did have a mechanism for attaching an external CD/DVD drive. I've reviewed the JB-199 manual again this morning, as well as examined the Super CDGs in my possession, and I think this is the best way to handle that (comparatively rare) situation:

1) The discs themselves say, right there on the front, that they are for playing only on CAVS Super CD+G players.
2) If you are using a CAVS Super CD+G player of any type (JB-99, JB-199, JB-199 II, etc.) to play the content of these discs, even if there is a media-shift involved, we will consider that to be "playing from original media."
3) However, that would not extend to playing the content of other CB discs, if a media-shift is involved; you would still need to register and pay the appropriate fee.



If you are playing content from those Super CDGs in a way that requires media-shifting, other than on a CAVS Super CD+G player, then you need our permission and should register. And yes, that's why they're excluded from the "limited use free registration" program.



Correct.



I'm not sure I quite follow you here.

If you are only using original media, whatever the type, there is no fee. If you don't media-shift your Super CDGs (other than to a CAVS Super CD+G player), then there is no fee.

I believe the above is what is called an "extortionate offer."
It's goes like this:
PEP: "You don't have a choice. Pay us and agree to our contract or we break your wallet."

Selling fear.... at $50 a customer.

Ever wonder why there is no "help license" for this trademark?
Because it would invalidate Digitrax as a service completely.

Going to line two of your registration formulas:



I am reading this as if you have 9 CDs or less without owning any of the other media types then the service is free/

So are you saying that if you own both CDGs and alternate media and play them all in the original format then there is no charge?

Yes, yes, we know your position. Always more heat than light. Often wrong, but never in doubt.

The promise we make isn't "tenuous." We've been entering into agreements with people for certification, the GEM license, HELP licenses, etc. for more than six years now. There have been times when folks don't hold up their end of the bargain--they get behind in payments, or they step outside the terms of the agreement in some way, or they mess up in some other fashion. But in all that time, in every case, we bend over backward to accommodate people. I don't think we've ever sued one of our licensees, even if they just out-and-out defaulted on their installment payments. When there is a problem, we work it out. We don't head to court. We're not looking for a "gotcha." You can ask ANY of our licensees how they've been treated by us after signing an agreement with us.

These are the facts:

1. We own the CB trademarks.
2. We will at some point in the relatively near future begin enforcing the media-shifting policy that was put in place by the original owner and continued by the next owner, and that we have continued.
3. We are giving people a reasonable opportunity to get into compliance with that media-shifting policy and to get the permissions they need to use media-shifted copies commercially.
4. The fee we charge is significantly lower than the fee we charge for SC certification.
5. Even so, we offer several ways to get a free registration, and if your financial situation makes the $50 unrealistic, you can explain why and ask for a discount, and we'll probably give it to you.

(We even set it up in a way that you personally, Mr. Staley, could register for free.)

People like to grumble about having to pay money. I get that. We're trying to be as fair as we can, but there are a lot of considerations for us to juggle. This is the best way we can figure out to accommodate as many people as we can.

This only proves that you don't understand the meaning of the word "extortion."

We have the right to enforce the CB trademarks. You cannot get around that, no matter how unfair you think it is. That fact, by itself, means that this is not "extortion."



I don't think that's exactly true. Digitrax does put out new material regularly, and it has for quite sometime. This is material that's simply not available via CB media, so that service would stand.

But a HELP-style license would cut into the utility of the KCP service. Our CB enforcement efforts are designed to help both companies, so why would we try to undercut that arrangement?

*yawn*

We have a license from the sound recording copyright owner to reproduce certain tracks in new products for the products we are currently offering.

That would be correct. PEP can't touch you if you use original media.

But that doesn't mean they won't sue you anyway. If one of the members of his crack investigative squad were to come into your show, and see you playing their trademark – without being able to see your hard drive – they can still sue you. And they will demand that you show them the original media in the discovery process.
Their philosophy is simple: they will beat you up with your own attorney's invoices until you give in.

I won't play their game but your mileage may vary.

Here is a clarification, and I'll try to get this on the website:

(1) If you only use original media, regardless of the media type (CD+G, Super CD+G, SD Card, original HD), registration is free.
(2) If you media-shift, and you're using media-shifted copies of only 9 or fewer CD+Gs and media-shifted copies of nothing else, registration is free.
(3) If you media-shift from more than 9 CD+Gs, or from any number of Super CDGs, SD cards, or hard drives, registration is $50 unless some other exception applies (like having a certificate).

The "9 or fewer discs" exception is designed to accommodate low-volume users--people like Smoothedge69 who only have 1 CB disc. If you have media-shifted even one Super CDG (450 tracks in most cases), you're not a low-volume user.

And that is still not an answer at all -- it's a dodge.

Maybe there are just too many words for you to comprehend.. let me dumb it down to a level you might be able to comprehend and perhaps you can give us a straight, non-evasive and perhaps honest answer:

Are your Irish and Gospel discs you sell on your website either;
(1) a NEW product you produced or,
(2) just leftover inventory you are reselling?

I don't have to agree to your contract or "register" diddly-squat with you. And there's no way you could possibly prevent me from playing CB trademarked material off a hard drive or an SD card, or a disc.

Period.

Well that depends, do you have media shifted items from CB? If yes, then you can be the first test to see how it goes.

If this DOES happen, I want to be there to watch

No, he has a non-expiring CB certification document. We'd like for him to register it, but he hates us deeply in his heart, so he won't.

EDIT: I should clarify that other than having his specific disc inventory, which we don't particularly need in his case, we already have all of the information we would otherwise obtain through registration, so we're not particularly bothered that he refuses to register. I'm sort of tempted to just list him in our directory anyway, for the lulz.

The fact that you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's not an answer.

We are selling new materials produced from old masters. I'm not sure what you might mean by "leftover inventory." We never had inventory of these materials, so how could we have "leftover" inventory?

Now it's an answer... an evasive one, but an answer:
"We are selling new materials produced from old masters...."

So the truth (which you've been avoiding all along) is that you haven't "produced" anything. You're selling what amounts to tracks you've taken out of a dumpster ("leftover inventory") from the owners of Piracy Recovery/Digitrax and are attempting to represent the product as "new." You haven't "produced" anything new for years - you're just recycling old crap to keep the trademark alive so you can sue KJ's and venues. Legal, perhaps. Ethical? I wouldn't call it that, but that's never really been a strong point for you and your client.

It's called "trademark trolling" but you like to say "we have the right to enforce the trademark" so it sounds more official, but trolling is trolling.

You never seem to have a problem "fudging the truth." Why am I not surprised?

Like Smith Barney; I make money the old fashion way, I work for it - I don't sit on my butt and "sue for it."

Wouldn't that be something for Harrington's crack investigative squad to determine? And again, his threats aren't bothering or scaring me in the least.


You would love for me to agree to any of your contracts wouldn't you? And there you go with the "oh, feel sorry for us because Staley hates us" blatant lie crap again... Do you ever stop lying?

NOTICE: You do NOT have my permission to "list" any of my information on your website or anywhere else - period. I do not want my name or any other of my personal/business information associated with your firm in any way, shape or form. I've seen how the very mention of your trademarks have had guns pulled on KJ's. I don't need to be associated with you at all to stay in business.

(You need KJ's and venues to sue, they don't need you)

Well, now, that is a bit of a conundrum. See, you've got a CB certification, so it would be irresponsible of us not to let people know that you're certified.

After all, I wouldn't want someone to stumble into your show and start accusing you of trademark infringement.

That would be terrible, and it would make you look like a hypocrite.

What to do?

Any business I've had in the past with any previous owner of the trademark is really none of your business. Period. Capish?

Actually, from what I've seen over the years, the only people that I know would "stumble into a show" is your crack investigative squad who really can't spot a disc being loaded by an off-duty cop, or they "lose the investigative report", or "they refuse to turn it over", etc....

But having someone stumble into a show and accuse me of any kind of infringement is nothing new..... Kurt's already tried that... years before you came along. All you're doing now is threatening to continue the harassment whether you're aware of it or not. But you're an attorney.... you can look all that stuff up.

Sadly, or happily depending on your perspective, no. It is, in fact, our business. (Literally.)

Back in the days when people still had landlines, when people still used the phone book, do you remember looking up your own name when the new phone book came out?

When our new licensee directory page comes out, you can get that feeling again, with a nice big "Chartbuster Certified" logo by your name. Won't that be a hoot?

It just might be a hoot... but not the kind you're expecting.

Besides, wouldn't that be terribly unfair to all those KJ's your pimping $50 from for the same thing? They're paying up to $50 to be on your page and putting any of my information on your website wouldn't be the truth, I've never purchased a darn thing from you have I? Oh, that's right; along with truth and ethics, fairness is not one of your strong points either apparently.