Karaoke Forums

Hi I am Currently hosting Karaoke at a local bar.

The Problem is the owner last week was our second week at the place and I was in the hospital for the show so my co-owner took the night. The Bar Owner short hanged him at the end of the night paying him less then our agreed apon fee, my partner did not object so he got away with it I probably won't be able to recover that last revenue.

I have severely cut my fees for this guy as he is our first real venue and I frankly needed him to payoff over head the fee that I am charging barely covers this. I cannot afford to cut it much further at this point I am not even able to pay myself!

He does not care that I run a legal show in fact I was told straight out that he did not care if I was legal or not... So I could easily slip into running a pirate show, but I refuse to do so. He wants it done cheap as possible. So if I leave he's just gonna hire some pirate to come in again cause pirates can be hired and fired at whim cause they flood the market here in the Greater Toronto Area.


the other issue I am having with the guy is he want's me to bring in a crowd. now I have no problem advertising the show using the tools I have available to me.
I own my own website so I post there I have a Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter and Myspace that I have events posted/created at I even have a bit of facebook and bing advertising credit that I am spending on this venue.

He is doing nothing to contribute to advertising not even putting up posters that I printed and paid for.

The only people that I have been able to attract so far are my close friends and a few clients that I have done private events for. I have found out that the bar has a very bad rep for karaoke with his previous hosts being pirates and running VERY sub standard show and those that I have found out that used to go refuse to go back for that reason and...

The fact that he wants me to have 3 or 4 singers then play 5 or 6 Original artists songs 3 or 4 singers then 5 or 6 orig artist songs etc. the problem with this is that those that I talk to don't like this format at a karaoke show. Those that go to karaoke go for karaoke and to sing as they see it playing non karaoke tracks takes way from their singing time and since he seems to want more non karaoke then karaoke over 1/2 of the night is orig artist so singer are getting no time to sing (or they would if they did not refuse to come out because they won't get to sing).

This has been going on since he took over the bar I have found out from previous KJ that I know that have worked the place they have tried to explain to him that Karaoke goers want karaoke not Original artist music and that if he wants Original artists that he should contact them as DJ not KJ's

any Advice on what I should try?

If it were me, I'd try to find another show on another night ASAP, then phase this guy out.

If he doesn't care about quality karaoke or about integrity he probably doesn't care about his bar either.

You can't build a show with a guy like that - he'll just drag your reputation down.

Ever watch Bar Rescue? If not, start and you'll get a feel for how sleazy bar owners can be, but also how the successful ones operate vs. this guy.

Walk Away.

i know it's hard to walk away when you need the cash so desperately, but if there is any way, I would.

Every owner i was able to get a gig with was like this. Tried to screw me at every possible opportunity and wouldn't lift a finger to help promote a successful show.

If i had had the self-confidence to walk away i might actually still be working as a host. As it stands every year i take a stab at trying to get my foot in the door.


You know what they say about the definition of insanity.. that's def me

Walking away or do it his way is the only option THIS TIME. I had some steadfast rules when I had the bar gig. I was in charge of entertainment and the bar was in charge of everything else. The owner was free to offer suggestions and did. I could accept them or not and sometimes I did.

As for the undercut, I would be at the bar at my next earliest convenience to address it. I had that sort of thing happen three times to me or someone working for me. Two of those times the night manager shorted and pocketed the balance. I solved that by having the night manager provide a double copy receipt that we both signed. I got a copy and the owner got a copy.

Walk away for two reasons:
1. When people start out screwing you, it gets worse and worse. You should not be bringing any of your own property into this club.
2. The show you're doing will last until he fires you, and I promise you he will. Meanwhile, the show you're running under his direction will harm you and keep you from getting other work, because you know it's not being done right. People will blame you for that. Your reputation is in play, and you should have more control. Good jocks don't play bad clubs. Let the pirates have it.

Nowadays, many clubs look at all of the advertising and promotion as being the province of the entertainers, but it's a two-way street and ideally a partnership. Well-managed clubs draw well with all of their entertainment, so you have as much right to complain about his draw as he about yours.

Before you load one speck of your gear into this dump another time, think about how much you'll enjoy calling him today and saying, "I'm not going to be able to continue my show for you, because your club is too slow."

Saying no is one of the hardest business skills, and one of the very most important.

He will continue to screw you...and nickel/dime you. He doesnt care.

You know what to do. Just like everyone has suggested.

I too am going through some issue with a venue owner. The only reason I have stuck with it as long as I have is because I have someone else running the show and it is their compensation I am most worried about. However, even the host has expressed a desire to drop the show even without a replacement gig.

Fortunately, I was emailed this week by two venues looking for karaoke so I may be able to just move to another location and keep the host working.

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-Chris

One other thing to bear in mind is that jocks who compromise on pay and work conditions are creating a market for bad pay and bad gigs, and helping to create them. In other words, if everyone decent said no, some of these gigs would get better. The better you are, the more responsibility you have not to settle for cut rate or other compromises.

I knew of a KJ who worked this one venue, where the Manager was known for short-changing the KJ on any given night. This Manager would disappear about 1 hour before the end of the show, and then instruct the Bartender to pay a specific amount that night to the KJ (regardless of what the KJ was expecting). Well. this one KJ got smart. He would be there on the night of the show, and then tell the Manager that either he pays him his fee up front, or he doesn't set up and Karaoke is cancelled for that night.

FYI No venue should tell u how to run your show. You are the professional KJ. As for lowering your pay. That should be your decision. Good luck.

I have never had any owner ever tell me how to run my show. We have discussed the rotation policy a couple of times but I have always prevailed. Pay, ounce set, is non-negotiable in the downward direction. The previous owner would not let me have a tip jar and now with the 3rd owner I have recently starting putting out a tip jar. It has been discovered now and I am collecting 15 to 50 dollars per evening. The 2nd owner told me that he felt that those tips should have gone to the wait staff

I know it's tough when you just get started and think that you don't want to lose the one gig you have but as everyone is saying, once an a$$hole always an a$$hole. I haven't been in this business for nearly as long as some of these folks have but I have definitely dealt with my share of lying control-freak owners.

The only course of action is to walk away. Any time an owner barters with your pay and starts trying to tell you how to run your business it's time to look in the mirror and realize exactly what's happening. This jerkweed doesn't value or treat you with respect as a business owner and will continue to do so if your willing to put up with it

Fortunately for you, the people on this message board have a vast knowledge of what is happening to you now and are offering some sage advice on how to handle it. You have to convince yourself that you are worth more than being treated like this because you are setting yourself up for future dealings from other owners of this ilk along the way.

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I made a living as a professional entertainer for years (back in the day that we sang through megaphones and banged rocks and sticks together for instruments) and I can honestly say I never had a single case when I put up with this nonsense to keep a job and it turned out well. I can easily think of examples where it didn't.

People know what the bad clubs are and it reflects badly on you to play them--people just assume that if this is the best job you can get you must not be very good. It's not a stepping stone, it's an ankle weight.

I've been on both sides of this one. I think it's legitimate for a club owner to give an idea what kind of show works best in his club, and within reason to give feedback and suggestions as to what is working and what not. He would be wise to acknowledge that you know more about karaoke than he does, and some ideas that sound just great to the layperson might not have been borne out by the long experience of a pro. Still, a good club has a personality, and a good owner tries to make choices that comport with that. Besides, it's better to be told what isn't working than to be fired and serially replaced by other KJs who also get no feedback or criticism.

The tips are in a gray area. A club could reasonably concern themselves that they're paying you well, and that putting out a tip jar might create a contrary impression. They might also worry that a tip jar could give the appearance of impropriety with respect to rotation. That said, I've never told anyone they couldn't use a tip jar.

I want to thank you all for your wonderful advice!!

I did do the show Friday and was stiffed again and more demands were made... They wanted me to play 45 mins per hour of non KJ music an hours (IE 3 or 4 singer then 10 DJ songs, not even do a rotation play a few songs do a rotation play a few songs....)

Then they wanted me to blast to music louder then necessary for the venues (a small bar) causing feedback on the mics because they kept telling to turn up the mics because the drunks (and I know I have to deal with them) were either mumbling, whispering or speaking fluent drunkenese. Then blaming me and my equipment for the feed back... even though when I started the levels were good without feedback. Of course doing this for a living and being a professional I can't tell my (@$%&#!) from my elbow when it comes to music levels...

The owner never showed up and I figured out what was going on about 1/2 way through like others he gave the bartender only part of my fee and told her to say she knew nothing about my actual fee. I told her that I wanted to talk to him ASAP that this was the 2nd week he did this.

So I kept calling Sat. and could not get a hold of him even though they had a live band there (I wonder if he stiffed them too?!?).

I Finally go hold of the (@$%&#!) Sunday and he Cancelled the show before I said hello... I told him good cause I was trying to call him to tell him to shove it!!!

I know one thing... NEVER AGAIN WILL I GO INTO A VENUE WITHOUT A SIGNED CONTRACT!!!!!

Anyone know if there is anything/one I can report this (@$%&#!) too? I know legal action is out as no contract and the cost will amount to more then the (@$%&#!) stiffed me for? But if there is someplace I could report him to to put him on notice (Business associations etc) where others can look up his/the venues reputation...

Take him to small claims court. Try to get some documentation, any documentation. Record of payments, etc.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Fortunately I have never had a problem with any venue owners, in fact most are helpful. One particular place always gives me a couple of ashtrays so I can smoke and the singers have the option of putting their cigarettes in the ashtray while singing or they hold them.

A lot of folks here do everything on a handshake.
Personally, I don't think it's worth taking the guy to court. Just be glad you're out of there and try to find a more professional owner who will work with you instead of against you.

Good luck getting someone to sign a contract for your services. I know that there are several here (members of this Forum) who have had success with that, but for the most part, Venues are not usually willing to sign any type of agreement for this type of service.

As for reporting this Venue, the best you can do is just let all your fellow KJs know what to expect if they decide to work there. Other than that, you have no proof of what he did, so it is a "He Said/She Said" type of case. Forget about Small Claims Court too (unless you think you can prove your case with regard to how much you charge, and how much you got paid).