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well i stand by what i say......answer to knight....i did explain why i do not leave critique....because i am not qualified to do so....everyone works hard on their songs...who the hell am i to rip someones song to bits....ive bit my tongue time and time again with you guys and your gripes ...because like many people i never gave you honest critique to what i thought was wrong with your subs because i DID NOT WANT TO CHANCE HURTING YOURS OR ANYONES FEELINGS ...... and if that makes me wrong...then for once i am happy to be in the wrong...... great singer or no great singer everyone deserves respect for what they do....and if you want to call it fluff then fluffing it is....cause i do not wanna upset anyone, i know myself how hard i work on certain songs i sub and would not thank people to take it piece by piece and in 400 words rip the (@$%&#!) out of it when its taken me a week on and off to get the song so i was happy and confident to sub......the main reason i said what i did earlier was not for shock or the need to (@$%&#!) at you, ive never been afraid to answer you guys....when i do leave any feedback for anyone, i will always try and pick something positive in the song i did like....as i did with all your subs ive commented on, it could be its made me tap my fingers its made me clap ...if someone blows me away with a song i will tell them...so i am being as honest AS I WILL ALLOW MYSELF TO BE when listening...it may not be a full and honest critique but its the best people will get from me....i did it because i was saying to you guys well you fight for honesty i will give you my honesty but are you really gonna wanna hear it?? fair play it's the most controlled ive seen your answers to be

i would also like to add that because someone isn't a great singer does not mean you cannot really enjoy someones performance....so if they hit a few bum notes who cares if they have had fun and you can hear warmth and emotion in the tons....most people sing from the heart...they will always get my admiration for that!!!

guess it ain't over yet...
Missy, you keep stating our point over and over.... it sucks to have to worry about hurting people's feelings, right?

If Tig, matt, tigger, etc choose to not want anyone to comment on their song.... then people with your point of veiw out there DON'T HAVE to worry 'bout hurtin' their feelings, cuz u don't even have to say anything at all. I see that as being beneficial to you....

-Crystal

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crystal....knight asked questions....please read......i am purely answering and clarifying what i mean...if its not to your satisfaction....tough! yes i do want to put my point accross and make sure i am not mis understood that IS BENEFICIAL to me to make a point...also a thread ends when it fizzles or gets removed....not on your say so sweetie.

Missycg, if you want to be understood, try making yourself comprehensible, at least with the written language. It took me ten mins to read that post.

First of all, I NEVER once asked during this whole thread about comments about my songs. WHAT questions did I ask other than "Why didn't you say this earlier?", and that was in REPLY to your unasked for comments. I just reread through this entire thread. Didn't see ONE other question, especially something like "Gee guys, what did you think of my singing?" Sooo, by bringing up something that was subbed by me over a month ago, and no longer available, just looks like you're going mental on us. You brought that up. Almost in retaliation.

But I was secretly glad you did... cause if ANYTHING, it brought to light the fluff for what it is. You say I was off key, out of tune, etc. BUT no, you couldn't say something like that. SOMETHING that would HONESTLY help a singer. Instead, you concentrate on the good points, or how it makes you feel.

And I'm happy for you that you can do that. I can too. It's just not in my nature to be a liar. For instance, I thought Mezza's quoted post about the submission of her song was thoughtful, and very delicate. I remember earlier in this thread wondering that some people can't handle criticism. Here was a listener who was TRYING to be decent and give out solid feedback. They didn't slam, but instead, gave pointers.

I can handle criticism. BUT I also put it in perspective of WHO I get it from. For instance, after hearing your comments about me, I immediately went and heard what kind of singer you are. If you want HONEST and non-inflammitory feedback on that, I'll give it to you. I won't post it on here, the way you did me, because IT would be taken as a retalitory attack. And that's not my way, no matter how much you've disrespected me here.

If being told I was off by you was going to make me upset, you're sadly in need of a reality check. ALL I stated was I want a place to sub my songs, where I DON'T have to deal with the dishonest replies. Next thing you know, hey, here's a whole lot of info I never asked for.

And ALL THIS for asking for, and finally getting, a NO COMMENTS part of the sub.

Crystal's dead on... even if three people use the feature, WHO CARES other than THOSE THREE SINGERS??? OTHER than the fact that it's showing the fluffees that we are tired of the lies, and only interested in honest feedback.

Personally, I want to sub my songs, and show people the author's link, and they can hear and see what I have to show without the complete B.S. that some of you guys love to give out.

Matt (truly wonderin' about some people on this world)

Excuse me, Missy....are you implying that I haven't been reading this thread? I do have eyes, and I have been reading this -- quite thorougly I might add...and you've MADE your point perfectly clear. it IS understood... may not be AGREED with, but understood.

your happy faces and "sweetie" isn't gonna make your post more sugar coated.

as for my "say-so" I don't recall demanding everyone to shut-up, do you? infact, I was merely lightening the mood, but then u trotted back in here again saying EXACTLY what u've been saying througout this whole thread and adding a little extra oomph in the form of a stab against me just to get the playground kids goin' "MISSY! MISSY! HOO! HOO! HOO!" and to get the last word in.

Do you honestly think that I believe people are gonna stop the thread just cuz I want them to?? again... I'm not THAT special... FAAAR too much credit given to me.

so just so everyone knows our opinions... Class, Let's reveiw:

Missy -- doesn't like the "no comment" option
Knightshow -- likes it... wants it... will use it
Tigrr27 -- ditto
Tigger -- ditto
Crystal -- doesn't care either way... knows it's just an OPTION

anything else we need to specify?? I think that about covers it for the umpteenth time, or Do you still feel the need to pound your opinion into everyone's heads.... again??

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Matt ya snuck that post in there! didn't even see ya there!

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knightshow....i can begin to write another waffle which may take you another 10 mins to wade through...but i am gonna just quote you and smile ....my thoughts have been made clear...i respect yours...i have not disrespected you in any way.

you say! quote:
First of all, I NEVER once asked during this whole thread about comments about my songs. WHAT questions did I ask other than "Why didn't you say this earlier?", and that was in REPLY to your unasked for comments. I just reread through this entire thread. Didn't see ONE other question, especially something like "Gee guys, what did you think of my singing?" Sooo, by bringing up something that was subbed by me over a month ago, and no longer available, just looks like you're going mental on us. You brought that up. Almost in retaliation.

i am not mental! just slightly nutty! .... now you see crystal why i made sure i clarified a number of times what i was saying


you say! quote!
But I was secretly glad you did... cause if ANYTHING, it brought to light the fluff for what it is. You say I was off key, out of tune, etc. BUT no, you couldn't say something like that. SOMETHING that would HONESTLY help a singer. Instead, you concentrate on the good points, or how it makes you feel.

i said you have pitch problems....i said you would benefit from the help of a vocal coach yes...pitch can be rectified....and i do believe most people when they listen to their own sub's will know when they have pitch problems....or hit bum notes! without me telling em


you said! i quote:
I can handle criticism. BUT I also put it in perspective of WHO I get it from. For instance, after hearing your comments about me, I immediately went and heard what kind of singer you are. If you want HONEST and non-inflammitory feedback on that, I'll give it to you. I won't post it on here, the way you did me, because IT would be taken as a retalitory attack. And that's not my way, no matter how much you've disrespected me here.

so in that case if i had told you at the time....you would have taken offence...which takes me back to the ....i am not qualified to critique and perhaps i am reading wrong but you also think i am not qualified to give honest critique on another singer....which is what i was saying alll along

my case is rested

goes to wash her straight jacket and rock in her chair for a few hours and perhaps read some literature so i can make myself understood more

I don't believe your case is rested.
You still didn't answer Matt's question which is this:


and he ASKED this because you so sweetly said:


when u typed that.... there was no question to be answered....so now he really IS asking a question, and you're not answering it...

allow me to steal your line?

Knight asked a question... please read.

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Actually, this was much easier to read.

no Missy, I never said I took offense, I said I put in PERSPECTIVE. That is, I will make a judgement based on who it is, their skills, and if they possibly can make such an honest comment and make it worthy. i've heard MANY good comments, and some are VERY worthy from them.

But you have YET to address WHY you brought this up? I never asked for an analysis on ANY of my subs.

and to clarify, you didn't say "I" had pitch problems, you lumped THREE of us together and made generic statements that could be taken any one of several ways... and yes, that is also what I went by on the judging criteria.

You started this whole mess... please end it... and yes, by singling ME out of all the ones that stated such an OPTION would be nice, it IS rather insulting. When I resub, if you want to give feedback, send me a PM, email or otherwise PRIVATE conversation, which is what we're AFTER in the FIRST place.

i did address why i brought it up....wade through it again for another 10 mins i am sure you will see my reasons as to why i brought it up...i would hate to start over again.....crystal understood me...and said i didn't need to keep banging on....soooo it is there

oh please enlighten us, Missy

I'd love to see if YOU even know what question Matt was asking.... I guess that statement was all you could say in fear of confusing yourself further

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Don't fight with the touched ones!

okay... gonna write this slow so even I don't this confused! !

Missy... WHERE ... DID... I ... Ask ... For ... You ... To .. even ... CRITIQUE ... ME?

and...

WHY... Am... I ... Doing... THIS... ? ? ? ?

make ya mind up lassie....ya telling me not to pound my opinion...now your asking me to enlighten ya.....confused! yes confused cause you can't seem to make your mind up if you want me to shurrup, or speak!

i have said what i wanted to say...i have nothing to add

!! !! !!
I'm not asking for your OPINION "lassie"

I'm asking you to answer Matt's question!! !!!

good god! this is hillarious!!

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Tigger - no way would I let this change our friendship. I respect your right to not want comments all the way.

Tthere are actually a LOT of people who are doing this for FUN. They DON'T WANT critique - they just want to share their songs with other people and enjoy some fun and bantering back & forth - that's all. To me, if you can't share it's not fun.

I don't want to be a professional singer - I don't have time to work on my pitch, timing, etc., etc., etc. I just want to sing for the fun of it. As Gilly said - I already know where my weak areas are. I subbed for the first time in my life a 1st take yesterday. I didn't record, re-record, etc., etc. and obsess over it. I just don't need that in my life right now. I've got more important things to stress over. I really hate to see someone be put down just because someone doesn't like their voice or something they can't change.

Anyway, I do respect the right of someone who does want critique, those who don't, and those who don't want any comments. It goes all ways.

I do appreciate everyones opinion and suggestions even if Matt doesn't think I'm worthy!! I was just being a smart a.. anyway..

Scenario... So lets see... say I was a person who was happily subbing my songs.. I was a poor singer... every single song I sang was poor quality.. You could pick out several flaws with each sub. I repeatedly kept sending in inferior subs. So I get about 10 comments on each song. Every single comment on every single song telling me what I did wrong with good suggestions and very tackful and non-inflammatory. I appreciate these critiques but I can't change what nature gave me even after I try my best to improve. Do I want to hear some fluff now and again? Do I tell all the fluffy people they are liars and to stop what they are doing because after all I want the truth over and over and over to no avail? Do I just want a good mix of fluff and critique? What am I after?


Options are a good thing!

I respect any option that gives people a choice and would be utilized. I too have asked for honest critique, if I get it great, if not great too.

Hehe, this is fun!

Disclaimer: I will not mention any names here, because it would be wrong of me to to, and every one know's I'm an
If you think I'm talking about you, not true!

There are some horrible singers here on the SS, but you know what? They are trying their utmost best to come out and sing. It is pointless telling them where to improve, because for the life of me, they will never improve, or maybe just a little with a lot of help . Some people are just tone death and kicking them in the private's while lying down is not very nice.

Why I tell them I liked their sub, is because I take my hat of to them! They might have done a song that brings back good memories for me, or even a sad one. But it's a sub that brought back memories. I will not tell them "You're the best" or any of the other fluff, just tell them "TYVM for bringing a memory back!"

Jumping in here and just bluntly giving critique is the wrong thing to do. You have to get to know the members around here.

Those who can handle a kick in the nuts, they get it from me, and those who can't, I won't critique. I have been here for a while now, and know most of you out there pretty well.

Oooh.. I think I can post here now!! (dis gonna be long)



I think a better idea would be a toggle (radio button) for 'critique/no critique' and it would show up as text somewhere in the sub info area, so we will know right off if people want to be critiqued or not. I think that 'no critique' people would find themselves not getting many comments, but that IS just my opinion. I probably wouldn't bother to even listen to a 'no critique' sub, unless it was by someone I already liked a lot.



*clears throat* well, generally, I can tell (and most people who have been around music professionally all their lives can as well) who is singing with their 'diaphram' (ie: 'stomach' - although that isn't quite accurate) rather than from their 'chest'. This will be addressed in another thread

(see http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic. ... 9467#39467)



It is much hard to 'fix your own voice' without help, than it is to offer helpful advice to someone else. Not only because it is easier to GIVE advice than to TAKE it, but because very often, we cannot hear what we, ourselves, are doing (withough extensive practice at doing so). It is sometimes very difficult for me to tell, for example, whether or not I am slightly flat unless I record myself and listen to it played back. This is because while singing, the voice resonates inside your own head and sounds different than it does to those listening.



I agree, that is not a very helpful comment, because vibrato (in particular) is something which must be 'allowed' to happen, not 'forced' to happen (otherwise, it doesn't sound right). Therefore, telling someone that they need more 'vibrato' isn't very helpful since it gradually develops naturally as the throat loosens and the singer becomes more comfortable with their 'instrument' (the body). What people might possibly mean, is that you need some 'reverb', which is a totally different thing and has to do with the way your voice is digitally processed, rather than how you sing. I don't know because, although your name seems familiar, I'm not sure if I've commented on any of your subs.



My suggestion, would be adding a small forum to the bottom of each sub page (as many places do, such as MSN does for its news articles). Or alternatively, an option to enable or disable a forum.



Hey, i would be more than happy to critique them (depending on how many songs they have). The real question is, would they want me to??

Way wrong... I've commented on MANY a thing, and hardly ever negative. In fact, I only get negative when attacked...

Hmmmmmmmmm
You know, I completely respect this opinion. And if what you called "fluff" is what everyone else said, man, I'd never have gotten disinterested in the comments section. Because you're seriously not commenting on the sub. You're giving kudos to the singer. Something most KJS and most singers in a karaoke bar DO.

And I never said that a critique needed to be painful. The earlier quoted one by Syber to mezza:

TELL me where there's anything painful in this??? The only thing I'd possibly say before it is "critique coming up, ignore if your not interested"... but you can clearly see Syber is trying to help Mezza out.

But as so many people are not interested in critical comments, I think Phill's idea of a critique option is excellent... this would allow THOSE of us that would welcome comments that are aimed only at helping, not hurting... I think that's terrific.