Karaoke Forums

Wal-Mart? McDonalds? Push out the "small fry"? This argument is ridiculous. There are no large national karaoke chains.

Chris IS the little guy. He IS a "small independent". He's just not crappy. If this guy was a lawn service doing a terrible job with stolen equipment, nobody would think twice about hiring a more professional, legit outfit.

Why are KJ's any different?

I would be willing to be that single-rig ops get undercut by other single-rig ops for more often than they do by multi-riggers. There are 100's of single rig operators in Seattle. I only know of a dozen or so folks that have more than 3 systems.



With all due respect to Dennis, he must not have offered something else of value that could convince the bar to keep him.

I work 9 different bars now. Every single week I hear about someone coming to one of them offering to do karaoke or trivia and even magic shows to push me out. Not once in 4 years have I lost a gig to anyone. Furthermore, I work for above average rates. I can be undercut at most of my shows with $150/night.

Quality Equipment.
Massive Song Selection.
Personable hosts.
Phenomenal service and communication with the venues.

And let's not forget the corporate automaton training.....

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-Chris

Exactly. If the one-horse operator is doing great, a cheap multi-rigger wont come in and steal his gig, ever.

IF however he is terrible, offensive, slovenly or has crap sound, he will most likely lose. I am getting $200 a night in a $75 town as a single rig KJ. Name callers come in every week and offer the owner lower prices. One guy offered to do it FREE for a bar tab & food! All have been rejected because I run a quality, legit, legal show and have endeared myself to the owner & staff.

Real businessmen want to hire REAL businessmen. Not the bum with crap sound and no personality who sits in a booth all night and just calls names, even if cheaper.

Nail meet hammer!

I got a RAISE from a venue after walking in with a P&L spreadsheet for my operations at their location.

I was spending an additional $50/mo at their venue for a WiFi hotspot. In addition to that, I spend almost $100/mo on new music for just their venue. I was also asked to add some lighting to accentuate the dance floor area.

I scheduled a meeting, brought the spreadsheet and all paperwork/receipts to back it up. I justified the raise and passed a portion of that on to my host.

Pure Business.

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-Chris

I experience the latter regularly which is why a stong word probably popped into my mind. I can't claim to be as untouchable as the rest of you because I HAVE had it unseat me. One venue kicked out the person but the other figured now that karaoke was built up, why not try the beer host and keep more of the till. I got that one back in a month but any loss of income means less to put back in as far as staying competitive.

As far as just letting venues know of your services, I have seen where I have lost out by not doing that. A host may quit for some reason and if you haven't made yourself known then you won't get the call. So I have started sending brochures out to everywhere, host or not.

But far as going in and pitching that I would be better than an existing host, I think that would depend on the area. I am in a small town type atmosphere and as far as I can tell there are very few non-pirate hosts here. So I tend to want to support those few rather than compete with them. In a big city with lots of venues and more anonymity you would have to use a harder sell. But as far as a known pirate show, I say put them out of business.

It is also very subjective as far as thinking you would do a better show. Sometimes it is obvious but sometimes a host may not do what you would do but they found it works for that bar. I've met a lot of karaoke hosts and with a few exceptions most thought that they were the best in the business. Funny how that works.

Maybe the reluctance to engage in competitive activity in the marketplace is why some of you have one or two shows a week. That's a hobby, not a business. There is no worse feeling than not calling on a business that already has the services you offer and then see someone else step in and take the show.

When you asked why they made a change and they say, "oh we've been wanting to get rid of this guy for months"

Had that happen once to me, never again, I'm always in sales mode now.

If Chris considers himself the little guy, he doesn't want to stay that way. Naturally he wants to expand his business if possible. It would seem that he is looking for some kind of justification of his expansion of operations. Will he stay small Bazza, I think not, when he quit his steady job he put himself totally into his karaoke service business. He has to make it as large and profitable as possible in order to support himself his family, and of course keep pouring money into the business itself. Positive cash flow is his company's life's blood. That is why he is expanding and needing to acquire as many gigs as he can.

I know it is only business, and probably the karaoke service business model of the future. I'm a product of the past, and I have a certain attachment to the one host on rig old model, which is probably outmoded for those who want to earn their living entirely by the entertainment business mode. Still it is hard to see hosts that have been in business for decades not being able to cope with the changes. I know this is not the concern of the new business model. It doesn't mean I have to like the change though just because it is there.

The place I am at now had another host. I went in there for their Grand Opening, which was held a few weeks after they opened. They guy was HORRIBLE!! He brought nothing to his show, personality-wise. He barely made any announcements, didn't get the crowd involved, nothing. The owner was there, I gave him my card, and told him if he wanted to give me a try (and I had a bunch of friends there who vouched for me, and sold me to the owner), to give me a call. He then asked my price. The following week I started there, and have been there since, and he is happy as can be, and so are the customers.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Robin, while others here argue and debate, I'm still focused on your original post, an a question comes to mind: What is YOUR stake in this? That is, what do YOU hope to get out of it? Are you just lending money to a friend, or are to be a partner in the business?

I ask because if you are to be a partner it will take quite a bit more time for the business to be worth the effort. 2 people splitting the pay for each show. If YOU are not looking for anything more than loan repayment on a specific schedule, then things may go a bit better for him. He may even repay early through other income sources.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

As far as the discussion that replaced that of the OP:

While I do send mailings and promote to everyone, I never approach the owner of a venue currently running karaoke for a few reasons.

1) Ethical reasons, but allow me to put those aside to avoid more debate.

2) I don't have to. I happen to live in a densely populated area with a zillion venues. Unlike some more sparcely populated areas,there's enough to go around.

3) Just something that I noticed through the decades : If you follow a garbage host there is a lot more work involved in overcoming a venue's rep for garbage karaoke.

If you follow a popular host it's even more work to overcome resentment from his / her regulars.

That's not to say that I haven't replaced other hosts, but only after they were gone.

4) I have been blessed with both longevity and a goid rep in my area over the decades. At this point when locals decide on karaoke I am-at the very least - contacted. After that, the money talks....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe you are the only host doing your shows right? The company bears your name and when people come to your shows they see you, not some other host. You have built up your following over decades and your business. I really don't have a problem when the competition is one on one. I can see where a larger operation would have an advantage over the small single rig operator. Maybe the are going to disappear over time, we don't even know what commercial karaoke hosting will look like in the next 5 to 10 years.

BS. The number of rigs you have doesnt matter. What matters is the personality running that show, the quality of the music, the quality of the sound, etc. Five crappy KJ's have no advantage over one exceptional KJ.

Bottom line: If you get beat by a multi-rigger, it isn't because he had multiple rigs. Its because of you.

My position is, I would not try to steal anyone's show as long as they were operating legally. Even if they weren't that good. But, I have no problem trying to take a show from a pirate. Piracy is killing the industry and it's our obligation as professionals to inform establishment owners who have unknowingly hired a pirate and the risk he's taking of a potential lawsuit.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

As far as the OP, another thing to check is the saturation of your market. Is there going to be an opportunity to get shows in your area?

In my area we've got 3 bars in one town. One has a legal host, one has a $40 host and the other is too small to sustain a show but a regular brings in his home system every now and then and fires it up if someone wants to sing a song. Getting a show in that town would require that someone quits, you unseat someone who is already established for years or you convince a venue to add another night.

A larger town may have more opportunities (and also more hosts) but at least you might find a place that doesn't already have karaoke.

OR you also have to look at out of the box places--schools, trailer parks, pizza parlors, private parties, etc.

Also I can't remember if anyone mentioned it but depending on the requirements of your locale, you may also need to look into the costs of business licenses, taxes, etc. In my area there is a state business license, county license and some cities within the counties have their own license. Then there is business property tax and use tax on anything bought from outside of the state. If it turns into a business and not a hobby then there is at least self employment tax on the federal level. And then there is insurance.....lots of costs that may not come immediately to mind.

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I don't buy the fact they don't know any better - if it is a business, one would try to find out all in's & out's, trends, methods, equipment, etc. If not that is not very good business IMO - you change with the times or someone better will come in and take over.
I tend to agree with the stuck doing the same thing and just don't want to change.

I'll help any kj that wants help to advise them on things. I have helped set up many kj's a even a couple of bars in the area with equipment. But in my experience trying to help them 'step up' and improve is usually the last thing most kj's want to hear as many already think they are doing everything right to begin with, so unless they ask, no I wouldn't offer the help.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Though I would not have phrased it as Bazza did, in essence I do agree with him. The major difference in karaoke shows is the host. That's what makes the show unique.

Library? Sure, it has to be solid, but once you get up over, say, 10k tracks, you probably have something for everyone. Hell, I know a host who is successful with something like 1200 tracks.

Equipment? I think we care more about that than the singers. However, even the very best does not mean the show will be filled with diva water drinkers. That would be in the way the HOST promotes and handles his / her show.

One aside: the large multi with whom I competed most for a long time (Sing-Sing) is gone, and I'm still here.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Here in west central Florida I have yet to come across any karaoke host with a light show of any kind. A few of the venues have a small amount of stage lighting, but it's never set-up or 'adjusted' for the karaoke! That would take a little extra work, and we can't have that in todays world!

I'll go a bit farther and suggest that most are 'pirate' operators as you all dub them here. The sound systems range mostly from fair to poor. There are a couple of operators that clearly are concerned with their sound quality, and it shows, but most are just rolling it in and hitting play. And of course there are a few that think louder is better, as if they're DJ'ing a head banging rave party! In most cases the poor sound is due to lack of operator skill at the controls, and not sub-par equipment.

And as for the KJ's themselves I've come across a couple who are engaging pro's, but many are about as dull as the order taker at Micky D's. And it seems some consider themselves singers, as they sing as much (or more) than the clientele they are hired to provide the service for. A Karaoke gig is after all a service being provided by the venue, not a performance gig like a live band etc. Most folks won't go to a bar to watch the bartender drink, or a restaurant to watch the waiter eat, so why go to karaoke and watch the host sing? (the exception being to break the ice so to speak at the start of the night)

I agree with those of you here that realize it's a business, and as such should be conducted in a professional manner at all times. A venue is hiring your service to put money in the register, not do shots and get drunk with your bar buddy BFF's. They want you to try and please their patrons, bring in more, and not run any off. You want the owner to be happy when he pays you, not grumbling about losing money having you!

I know of one in New Oreans that only had maybe 500 songs - but they were hand picked, no ballads, all up beat. Most popular songs. But that is a high tourist area and they could get away with it.
I have over 15K unique tracks - and buying more requested songs I don't have on a near daily basis. Sure I could probably never buy a song again & have something for everyone, but it is nice to offer what people want which is why I continue to buy.

I think this one goes more onto the bar than the host. I am not there to facilitate who is drinking what. If the bar has a problem with water drinkers, then they need to charge for the water, soda, coffe AND refills - if they are in a place that doesn't allow charging for tap water, then sell bottled water. I get more water drinkers or soda sippers from the bad singers more often than not then those who can sing.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

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