Karaoke Forums

Take his job. I am sure I will take some grief for this, but I have my reasons, some of which were mentioned in my post.

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-Chris

I don't like show poachers but I have no problem with it when it comes to unseating a pirate. They can all lose their shows as far as I'm concerned. But they have to be pirates for sure.

I am going to go ahead and get in front of this now before anyone seeds this with uninformed opinions -

I am not "poaching" the show for the sake of poaching. I am trying to take over the show for the following reasons -

99% sure they are pirates. Why? They have one of the largest karaoke books I have ever seen. Large enough that it is broken out into THREE 2" binders. (I will try to get a pic this weekend). They do list DiscID's in their books and it appears they have every version of every track made by every producer ever. (how many of you have every Druid disc? AND every Karaoke Maker disc? AND every HelluvaDisc? not to mention everything Chartbuster, Sound Choice, and PHM ever made?)

Did I mention that the guy that owns the company is MAYBE 30? If the guy was 60 I might second guess myself.

The above alone is all the justification I need to try to take the show. But as noted - In this case, I am less interested about getting rid of a pirate and more interested in raising the bar for karaoke.

The sound is atrocious. It is always mixed with the vocals way to loud. Trying to sing hard rock type songs results in so much distortion it is usually unintelligible.

Rotation is strictly a favoritism thing. I have dropped in several times in the past year and every single time I have seen singers up multiple times before I get called up. I was dropped from the rotation completely one time because the song I wrote on the slip was performed earlier in the night (but no one called me up to ask for a different track).

They don't display the lyrics on any screen other than the small 15" black and white CRT on a stand. This is in spite of the place being a sports bar with a dozen or more BIG screen TV's, which could be used as the primary singer displays giving the singers full mobility in the bar. Instead, they are trapped in one corner.

That corner is also where the "host" SITS in a typical restaurant booth. To hand in a slip, you HAVE to come into the singer's space unless the singer has moved themselves off to one side which also makes it difficult to see the lyrics screen.

Because there is no audience display, there is no way to check rotation (they don't display a scroller or any info on the singer display either).

The power/video cables for the singer display are usually NOT taped down or covered (it was taped down once). I have seen singers catch the cords when submitting songs which pulls the singer display stand (on rollers) around DURING songs.

No lighting. Very dark.

This is a $75/night operation. I have never seen either host drinking so they are simply working for cheap. No bar tab. I know it is $75/night because the bar manager and I have gone round and round on the price of the show.

It really is a very bad setup and production and I have no doubt that most of you would walk out before singing or at least never come back again if you did sing. It is the very definition of crapioke.

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-Chris

I'm all for it and you have my support 100%. Let us know how your conversation went with the bar owner. We want complete details. Best of luck.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I'm actually surprised that there is any condemnation for "poaching," as it were. Maybe it's because I'm in sales, but if I take a customer or an account from a competitor, it isn't so much "poaching" as it is "doing my job."

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

There is the capitalistic, opportunistic, little-red-devil-on-my-shoulder that says, "Do it!"

Then there is the haloed angel on my other shoulder that says, "These are tough times for karaoke hosts, let them be."

Until now, the angel has won every time. I don't have any interest in taking legitimate gigs from hard working, honest, karaoke hosts. But I have no problem with taking one from a pirate, slacker that contributes to the negative stereotype of a karaoke show.

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-Chris

A priest once told me "that the devil comes when we are weak and tells us it just doesn't matter". You can rationalize anything, I never went looking for someone's job. Unless the venue owner offered me the job I didn't go canvassing. After a while I had built up such a good reputation venues called me not the other way around. That is one reason I never quit my day job. Just answer me one thing Chris are you getting the gig so you can do it yourself every night? If not what are you going to do put in the equipment and have one of your acceptably trained hosts do it? It is one thing if you are hungry and you want to do it yourself, it is quite another if you are just building your multi-rigg karaoke service empire, at least to me.

i agree, unfortunately 99% of the singers don't give a crap and will still go back. guys like this are a problem for the business like the stereotypical used car salesman makes them all look bad, but the singers appathy may be the worst part

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

It's business. Happens everyday in every facet of any job - why is it such taboo when done in the karaoke world? Poaching - nah! Unless you are deliberately going in with a ridiculous low ball price just to get someone out. But if someone makes an offer and gets the same or even more, that is just good salesmanship/business sense.
If a host is good and a bar is happy with what they have currently, then anyone coming in to solicit would be turned away. If the bar isn't happy, then they may consider a change knowing there are other options when one comes in to greet them.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

So that is the solution to terrible karaoke? Either it continues or it is replaced by a multi-rigg operation offering a Wal-Mart, Mac Donalds approach to providing karaoke service. Neat, clean, sterile, with every host trained in how to deliver the same type of show. Thus the small fry are all pushed out eventually, and only the big players are left. No more small independents just more of big business America. Sometimes it's nice to be retired.

n o, not wal-mart mcdonalds approach. my hosts are trained on running the equipment to get the best out of the singer, running the rotation in the same manner i do (for consistancy) but from there, the way they dress, act, talk, song selections, screen backgrounds, filler music and is all done to fit the venue or that hosts personality.
there is more than one off operators and sterile corporate juggernauts.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Paradigm I can only evaluate the large multi-rigg operations by the few I have seen here locally. The large scale operator installs his own equipment, and combs the Jr colleges for college students in the Music and Theater Arts depts. He trains the students who can sing rather well and pays them minimum wage to run the shows.

You did answer my question in a way whoever gets or uses your service unless you are running it they are not getting you. The show bears your company name and some people might like the personality of the host you hire better than your own, but it is not you. That is because every host is an individual and his style is unique to themselves. You can run a multi-rigg operation well, but in doing so you lose the personal touch. To some people it does not matter to others it does. If you have built up a following over the years the people want to see you, not some host doing the job in the style of you. You should take that as a positive not a negative.

You are a bitter, clueless troll.

First - nothing wrong with neat, clean and sterile so long as it is GOOD. Pick your favorite soda, beer, whiskey, ice cream. Don't you expect it to have the exact same quality every time?

Second - single rig operators are in absolutely no danger of being pushed out by multi-riggers. If you have PROOF - not conjured bullshittery - I will be happy to hear it.

Third - Every single one of our karaoke shows is run by a UNIQUE personality. The hosts are expected to follow some very simple rules - the exact same guidelines that every quality karaoke host should be following anyway!

Don't come to worked F'd up. Don't get F'd up on the job. Know your limits.
Run a a clean, consistent rotation. - Tips, boobs and bulges don't influence rotation.
Always pay your tab.
NEVER ask the bar for money. The bar pays me, I pay you.
Treat the equipment as if it were your own.
Respect the staff and the patrons.

Those are my rules.

The rest of the "training" is how to use the software, manage song requests, setup/teardown, etc. I do offer tips and tricks I have picked up from 20 years of public speaking and training and of course the last 4 years of being a karaoke host. Up to them if they listen or not!

The rest of the show is up to the individual host. It's their show to customize as they wish.

I would like to know exactly what kind of corporate drone training you think I could be doing to force all the shows to be exactly the same anyway? There isn't anyway. Like I said.....

You are a bitter, clueless troll.

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-Chris

Thanks for the tips and insights into this business. As I suspected it will take a while for me to recoup any investment, as the income potential appears modest at best. The young man I am considering helping has been working as a DJ & KJ for a company with multiple rigs, but want's to build a business for himself. I'm sure some of you have had folks that you've trained leave and become a competitor. But, like most, this guy can't capitalize the business on his own. So I only have to decide how much I'm willing to wager on a roll of the dice! As always there's a ton of used equipment out there to maximize whatever monies are spent.

One of the big reasons there is a lot of used equipment out is the not so good giving up and selling out.

First of all Chris I thought the hosts on this forum were supposed to refrain from name calling. Second single rig operators are in danger of being pushed out by multi-riggers who undercut the single rig operator. This happened to my friend Dennis twice when the large multi-rigger came in and took two of his gigs. I think I posted about that. I did not make up this scenario it actually happened to someone I know personally and used to go to his show. It has been awhile for him to find another job. This particular multi-rigger came in took a successful show and ran it into the ground. I'm not saying you or other multi-rig hosts are doing the same thing. I'm just trying to point out there is a dark side to multi-rigging, it is not good for everyone in the industry. That it can have a negative impact as well as substandard karaoke.

Dennis was not a pirate he was in his 60's and had been at one venue for over 15 years and had built it into one of the top shows in the area. He had a large customer base, but he could not offer his service at the same price the multi-rigger under cutter could. Hosts complain about pirates that undercut their business, what about multi-riggers that do the same thing? You don't want to believe it can happen but it can.

I'm a single rig operator who feels no threat from the multi rig operator - unless I'm not doing my job that is. Then it wouldn't matter who was trying to get the job - even lowballers. I've had several companies come in throughout the years, best part about it is the manager of the bar directs those inquiring to me seeing if we feel we need to replace the current karaoke company. If I wasn't doing my job, they would most likely talk to them and make a decision themselves. Which brings me back to = it's business. If you are doing your job, chances are slim, you won't be replaced, unless the owner/manager is just a money grubbing douche that don't know how to actually make money by spending money.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Poaching is a pretty strong word. Going in in off show hours and talking to management about your services is not poaching. Going to the show, talking to the singers badly about the host, standing with the owner and pointing out flaws and how you can fix it, handing out cards; those are all things that are way below the belt. My owner used to tell me all the time that people approached him about their services. Didn't bother me or him a bit. Even he hated the ones that did it during a show.

Look guys I don't feel threatened either during my 19 years of hosting neither pirates or multi-riggers effected by business. I'm merely saying there hosts out here I'm sure you know them as well as I do that have been effected by both. I still know many hosts still in the business and some feel they have threats from both types of operations.

zzzzzzzzzzz