Karaoke Forums

Hip Hip Hooray! Well put.

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If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically!
The Truth often gets in the way of a good story.
Record companies should make every song in a karaoke version and kill the dispute!

I don't think you can classify people as "left" or "right" based on their views on karaoke. You could not possibly be more wrong about my politics.



Of all the lies that the anti-SC crowd pushes, this one is the most pernicious. Here is our process:

1) Conduct a thorough investigation of the KJ's operation to determine the extent of their operations, the size of their catalogue, the frequency of shows, the time in business, and numerous other factors--including the most important factor: making certain that the KJ is using non-original-disc tracks, marked with SC's trademarks and/or trade dress, to put on a commercial karaoke show. A major part of this investigation is at least one on-site visit of considerable length.

2) File a lawsuit to trigger the KJ's obligation to preserve evidence. You'd be surprised how many people react to "first contact" by deleting all of their materials.

3) Serve the lawsuit on the KJ with (a) an offer of an audit to demonstrate 1:1 correspondence, after which the lawsuit will be dropped if 1:1 correspondence is shown, and (b) an offer of settlement, if the KJ is not in 1:1 correspondence.



If we did that, I would be the first person to blow the whistle. We don't. We conduct a thorough investigation of every KJ before the decision is made to sue, and there are many KJs we investigate whom we don't sue because their operations don't reflect indicia of infringement.

Whoever told you that we "pick up a newspaper and sue every KJ listed" lied to you.



We would have no way to determine in a pre-suit investigation what discs you have or don't have. In the audit, having something in your book that's not on your system would be irrelevant. The audits include a 2% tolerance, so even if you had the contents of that disc on a hard drive but couldn't produce the disc, you would like still be able to pass the audit.



You may have heard about it, but no, doesn't happen.



When I conduct an investigation, I can see whether the operator is using discs or not. I can count on one hand the number of times I have encountered an operator who was using a hard drive but had the discs on hand.

But let me give you a little hint: An operator who's been working for six months or a year and has 80,000 tracks on a hard drive...that guy doesn't have discs.



The problem with what you're suggesting is that it does nothing to compensate the upstream rights holders for the use of their materials. When SC settles with an operator who acquires the GEM series, the copyright owners get compensated. For someone who claims to be so concerned about "stealing from songwriters in their 70s," you appear to be happy to throw that out the window if you can get cheap access to their materials, even if they get zero for it.

Which, by the way, makes it clear that your comments are more heat than light.

I read it last week from a newspaper website, I forget where from and I don't have time to trace it right now. But all the KJ's listed in the paper were sued.

_________________
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically!
The Truth often gets in the way of a good story.
Record companies should make every song in a karaoke version and kill the dispute!

You might want to read the very first post I made on this forum:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22072&p=307797#p307797



There are lots of very capable people who post here, who disagree with SC's methods and goals, who have a strong interest in seeing us fail, and who are more than capable of testing the things that I say on here to determine whether they are true or not. If I made false statements here, I am confident that those people would be quick to correct me with evidence.

So, contrary to your assertion, I have every incentive to be transparent, because my credibility is at stake.

I don't have to be here. I don't have to make any statements on this board. I do so for the reasons I stated in the beginning: interaction with the industry, to correct misinformation and rumor, and to answer questions with accurate information.

There was a recent incident in which a prominent poster here accused me of making false statements here and in court. I invited that poster to point out the lies or to withdraw the statement. He couldn't point them out. I offer you the same opportunity. If I've lied about something, call me out. Quote the text, then show why it's false.



You're free to believe me, or not. That's fine. But you're not entitled to make up your own "facts."

Let me know when you have time to trace it, because I'd like to see it.

It's been my experience, that the management (Editors) not the government, that decides what to "Print" or show on the news.
And most media is in fact owned by Corporate America. G. E. etc..

Hollywood is a "Media Town" and people do talk..

Just sayin'...

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If there is no way to determine what discs a KJ does or does not have, then the suits are a fishing expedition by default.

Yes, I agree that while a newbie with a gazillion songs on an HD is PROBABLY a track thief, I know at least one who started with that many after selling his brick and mortar karaoke store- and HAD the discs.

However, that's about THEFT. SC's cases are about Trademark Infringement, not theft.

Either way, with no way to determine disc ownership, you are back to to a fishing expedition, per your own statement.

BTW- To Big Easy: While I am in perfect agreement with most of what you have to say ( and Jim will tell you that I am every bit as vocal and adversarial) I would ask if you could tone down the personal stuff a bit? It's a debate, not a slap-fest. I'll buy the beer....

To Jim: It pays to be careful with words like "lie"- One never knows when it can come back to bite one..

PS: I do not know if there is an Anti-SC "crowd" here at all. For instance, I am anti-SC methodology. I have no feelings toward the corporate entity. Chris is more PRO-SC than not, yet mentions his differences with SC- methodology as well.

Yes, I do see one or two who might actually be anti-SC, but not a "crowd".....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Do you propose that we break into the KJ's house while he's at a show and see if he has discs?

Here's the deal...running a show from a 1:1 drive that you did not get permission to make is a little bit wrong. Running a show from a non-1:1 drive is a lot wrong. Short of the sort of cooperation that more than 90% of operators are unwilling to provide, we can't tell the difference between the two. So we sue both. The ones who are doing what's only a little bit wrong get out of the lawsuit easily and with minimal expense.

But that doesn't change the fact that both are wrong, and THAT is what makes this not a "fishing expedition."

I recognize that you disagree that the first one is a little bit wrong. But as far as the law is concerned, and as far as the courts are concerned, we're right, and you're not.

I read in this forum that someone accused you of stealing books? Is that as bad as breaking into their house? Or just not quite so much as bad?

There is the problem, You can't tell if someone did anything wrong but they all get sued! SC product sales have got to be up over the last 5 years? Up until the last month anyway. Do you really have to dog the whole industry to sell your CD's?

To Harrington,
Can you please tell us how many discs you have been selling every month over the past 5 years since the random lawsuits started And just before? In your suits argument you stated that the last discs released sold ?? was it, I can't remember how many??? Help me here. But how many discs per month were you selling in 2009 and how many now? Was there a sky rocketing at some point? What has the average per year been, maybe if that's easier? It should take 5 minutes for you to find out something that simple from Tax info. Unless of course you want us to believe you have no idea, then I'll call out, "BS" and we'll all see just how transparent you are.

_________________
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically!
The Truth often gets in the way of a good story.
Record companies should make every song in a karaoke version and kill the dispute!

That's a pretty dishonest edit.



We don't steal books.



I said that we can't tell whether someone did something a little bit wrong or a lot wrong. They're both wrong. We don't sue people whom we think did nothing wrong.



Evidently, because almost everybody uses SC material and only 10% or so pay for it.



I haven't sold any discs.



I'm not sure if you realize this, but "sales" is not my area. I don't have the time or the brain capacity to think about things that aren't in my area of responsibility. I have no idea how many discs SC sells per month, nor do I particularly care to know.

The figure you are referring to is the last CD+G release, which sold about 750 copies. But that number has little to do with the information you're asking for.

Each and everyone of us present a perspective that is typically in our own best interest. How does that make us different?

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-Chris

I had to spend three extra years in school and pass a really hard test so that my positions could become illegitimate.

I'll bite... Define "Far Right" and how I fall into that category. In many of my past posts, I have had both positive and negative things to say about SC and certain practices. The biggest thing I've probably had gripes with, is when people have posted out of their "Far End."


Huh????????? Let's hear more details about what you think this program is that PHM is offering. Then maybe you can get Tom (aka Bastiat) to explain the real offer they made (or even Chris Avis, since he paid for it).

Um, the courts - in the majority - don't seem to agree with you. SC seems to blow it in front of a judge.As for breaking into houses : How you get actual proof of wrongdoing BEFORE you sue is not my problem. However, unless you do, then SC "investigations" will remain questionable at the very kindest of definitions, and completely non-existent by general definition.

Spot and name the track, note the time, venue, and KJ, then have ANY indication that the KJ doesn't have the disc. No indication? (Guile, conversation, investigative probing) - go to the next one, or go home.

Fishing expedition. There is simply no other way to define suits used for discovery purposes with absolutely no indication of wrongdoing.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I would like to apologize to anyone I have not offended yet. Please be patient, I'll get to you soon!

I knew Harrington would skirt the question all together (My Brain Hurts when you ask me damaging questions I can't answer because of my lobby (client) pays me not to answer). Ha ha ha ha ... Typical.

There are too many ways a smart Lawyer can ruin the lives of innocent people, with good intentions.

Harrington,
Good people who pay there share are screwed in your method! You've already admitted it.

There is no transparency you are cloaked like a bird of prey, or an Alligator hiding in murky waters waiting for a gazelle. Even worse a Shark who walks among us, devouring everything in it's path and turning it to (@$%&#!). I just cannot believe that 90% of KJ's are as dirty as you say. I know these people, they own their content. You blow it out of proportion in my estimation. I know there are pirates but they never last because they have no talent.

_________________
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it sarcastically!
The Truth often gets in the way of a good story.
Record companies should make every song in a karaoke version and kill the dispute!

Deleted by me.

Well, if things keep going the way they are, i suspect that Big Easy will be too busy fighting his own libel case to post here.

-James

Big Easy,
Might I suggest that you climb above the lid to the box you live in and go out into the real world. Even in my market that has been hit several times with suits there are still quite a few working KJs that are using content no way they could possibly have paid for based upon the lifestyle they live. Example: one having over 50,000 tracks in their library including SC and CB but yet they live (mooch) with their ex wife and work a min wage paying regular job, Really? I have personally had conversation with several that I know they are not legit (see above example) and yet they seem to repeat the anti-SC rhetoric and have never met or even had 1 conversation with SC or their representatives or any manus but, get all their information from the internet and forums like this and I stand there in amazement trying not to laugh in their face and ask them if they really believe the bs the spout out. One local KJ that is trying to compete with me only by quoting a much cheaper price (still can't take my business) still insist he gets a subscription upgrade each month from the guy he bought the hard drive from with over 35k tracks including SC, CB and PHM for less than $500 (there is your sign). He also insist that because the logos have been removed the manus can't come after him. Stupid is what stupid does!

Let's take the 90% down to 50% and it is still a huge problem. The KJs talent is not in question (they have very little or they are good) they just use stolen content and are leeches on the marketplace all the while hiding behind the Flag and constitution and saying that SC is on a witch hunt or fishing expedition. I say let help them bait the hooks. Even fishermen will throw the dolphin back when fishing for tuna. You might care about the rest of the market place but just in your small world but i for one do care a heck of alot about this entire industry and yes the SC content I own, use and profit from every week is just as important as the other brands I own, use and profit from as well.

You might call me a "cheerleader" or pro-SC of whatever other term that suit you taste but you intent in you post to discredit SC and its "methodology" are very weak at best.
Your anti-SC rhetoric is fun to watch and really do you no service since most of you comments are only based on you personal opinions and how you see our world (inclusive of all working KJ). It is so easy to sit behind the computer screen and boast of your expertise on the subject of piracy, trade dress and trade mark law and yet you try very hard to discredit your nemesis (Harrington) without any real facts and still you expect Harrington to tell you everything he is doing (point of fact, you are not his client). How easy (pardon the pun) it's for you to try to beat him down when in fact what he is doing is really working to preserve this industry. Otherwise the infringers and others that are profiting from using karaoke content improperly including 1:1 without the brands permission (it is their property to control) would and have contributed to demise and loss of revenue to Karaoke manus past and present.

You also keep making the point that SC has not produced any new product product in 5 years (who cares). A lot of the tracks that my singers continue to sing every week regardless of brand are usually songs that were on the charts longer that 5 years ago and the singers are of all age groups.

Have a great day, I am!

PS, never apologize for offending anyone if you intend to in the first place.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

Be on the lookout for walking sharks......they are EVERYWHERE!

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-Chris

I am wondering how many times I have to say it for you to get it.

This is what we do--along with a lot more.

Seriously. This is our historical conversation:

Joe: You don't do real investigations.
Jim: What would you consider to be a real investigation?
Joe: Do X, Y, and Z.
Jim: We do X, Y, and Z, and A, B, C, and D, also.
Joe:

Then we wait a couple of weeks for your amnesia to kick in, and repeat, ad nauseam.