Karaoke Forums

So it seems the karaoke enthusiast such as myself has seen a drop in the amount of venues available.
Upon research so it seems the general feeling is Karaoke does not draw the big spender.

Do you find this to be true?

i would say it depends on the area you are in.

For some areas, yes it does seem to be in decline. Karaoke here in High River, AB hasn't been the same in the last five years, and it's been even worse since the flood last summer.

Other areas in Alberta seem to be in a general decline, but the venues that I frequent in a town called Okotoks seem to be doing fairly well

-James

I have been reading the in general karaoke venues do not make big profits.
It seems most who attend may purchase a drink perhaps soda or water and that is it.
I sense at least in the New York City area enthusiasm is on the decline

I had a venue tell me that the karaoke people didn't drink as much nor tip as well as the band crowd or DJ crowd--then again they didn't break things or fight, either.

In general our entire area has seen a decline in everything and people aren't going out as much nor spending as much when they do. There has also been an increased problem with people tanking up at home first or else trying to smuggle their own drinks in or drink from their cars in the parking lot. Many places are struggling and re-evaluating what they do.

Another factor is BMI has become very active and some places are trying to save on that by going to comedy nights and other entertainments that don't involve extra fees.

My bar owner told me a couple years ago that his average per-person ticket on a Friday (non-karaoke) night was $26, but the average per-person ticket on a Saturday (my karaoke night) is $38.

I don't know what you define as "big spender," but a $38 tab per person isn't bad at all for a neighborhood sports bar.

BTW, there are easily over 100 karaoke venues between the two metro counties here in my city. I agree, there are fewer venues than before, but I don't think karaoke's going anywhere in the short term!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Thank you for your insight

I guess I would have to agree with Jclaydon - "i would say it depends on the area you are in."

In my area, the established shows keep plugging away.

My established shows have been making record sales this year, continually raising the average hourly sales totals during the show. The crowds are HUGE! The average number of singers that participate has gone up. When that happens, the place gets packed with a great audience. I am so very grateful that the staff at my venues support karaoke with their attitudes and their skill-set(s) because I witness them getting CRUSHED quite frequently. Does the karaoke crowd spend? Yes they do. More now than ever.

My newest show (9 weeks tonight) has been steadily picking up business as the word gets out that it isn't the same karaoke that they were used to. If you were in that area as little as three months ago you'd have had your choice between a (witnessed and admitted) pirate (established but then moved to the next town) and a weird karaoke/trivia hybrid hosted by a retiree who moves like his joints haven't been lubed for a decade or more. He is disc based, with a limited selection and his gigs never last more than a couple of months in one place. Now, there's just my show and the venue owner is pleased with our progression.

I have a meeting tomorrow to seal the deal on a new show. I have a venue owner who I've provided karaoke entertainment services for in the past that is pushing for a meeting to discuss the summer season. I have a private event (4th repeat) scheduled this weekend.

Downward spiral? Not so much. Less venues? Quite possibly, but though you may have fewer choices, the shows that thrive should reasonably be the ones you WANT to go to.

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Never the same show twice!

Thank you for your reply. My information was gathered from a Karaoke Dj friend of mine. Brooklyn New York is his venue arena.
He was the one who told me the reason karaoke venues are on the decline is that in his opinion karaoke attendees do not spend.
From the responses I have gotten it seems and perhaps it depends on the local.
Another karaoke dj though her husband owns the place spent thousands of dollars on a sound system and stage. It was poorly designed. Having numerous video monitors to choose from they chose the one behind the stage to use for karaoke duh. Translation the singer will have his back towards the crowd. Not only was the video monitor poorly chosen the singer can not hear himself sing for the speakers were placed on the ceiling behind the singer. Her hubby wants the music level low as to not interfere with the dinner crowd. Huh? So I suggested a speaker monitor for the singers/ The response was the owner was not striving to make the spot a go to event. In other words make it hot with high energy. The owner did not want to invest or spend any more money for his belief was the outlay was not worth the return. So in other words they according to the dj are not striving for greatness. Just a little something extra on a Thursday night. The owners attitude seems to be if it brings in more people fine but I am not gong to invest in a lot of energy to make it great

It definitely depends on the area & what kind of crowds you are looking at. We have a typically younger crowd 20-40ish. Lots of hard drinking & shots going down along with the beer (saw one guys tab last night $175 - but he was also buying shots & Jagerbombs for his table - along with what they all spent as well). We have a heavy rock/pop/country atmosphere (took me a few years to get it to that point), not a lot of singers singing the oldie 'karaoke standards'. When we used to have more of that type of crowd, the sales were typically a lot lower because they would be more concerned with their voice and how they sounded so not a lot of alcohol drinking.
Another factor that brings them in is the sound system, gets loud enough without getting the tingle in the ears when we want to bump the volume just a bit more (ear fatigue), hard kickin' bass. We get lots of good singers (local bands/musicians) a lot of nights. Plus we are also one of very few around here that actually update their selection almost on a weekly basis. I have OFTEN seen other kj's that currently work elsewhere come in on their nights off to sing what their place (or company) won't get.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Another factor is the type of show being promoted.

I'm over the bridge in NJ, with plenty of karaoke about.

It's been my personal experience in this area that the types of shows that promote themselves as American Idol type semi-pro shows bring in more singers that drink less. That is, they can pack a place and still end up with very little in the register, as these folks like to show off, and don't want to "ruin their voice" for the night- hence, soda, water, or club soda.

On the other hand, those shows in my area that promote a " It's karaoke, not world hunger" sort of relaxed, have-fun show seem to bring in much higher spending patrons.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I think it is true. No one has any money these days and the smoking ban has done it for many people as well. Me and my girlfriend used to always get up together in our late teens and sing and she used to like taking a fag on stage with her but now she can't do that.

In my youth I used frequent bars and sometimes, I admit today, having a good time especially with live bands, same as Karaoke today, overdrinking was a problem. How many times I got pulled over and the cops all knew me since I was on the First Aid Squad, and they knew my family, they would tell me to park the car and get in the police cruiser and they would take me home. That doesn't happen today, DWI's took it's toll and still do today more so than ever. We all, whether your the host or a patron seen too many inebriated stagger out the bar. Why would anyone be surprised of a decline in spending when we are aware of just a few mugs of beer could buy you thousands in fines, lawyer fees, court cost, and possible jail time, loss of income just for a "good night out". A lot of soda/pop sippers at the bars these days. No surprise when I've seen local honky tonks, gin mills, barrooms that used to draw big crowds, but no longer, either changed to restaurants or close up.

I don't see evidence of a "downward spiral" in this area. Quite the contrary. Whereas about five years ago, there were just one and sometimes two karaoke hosts operating in this area on any given night... nowadays there are at least a half-dozen. And while I certainly can't speak for the others, I know that both venues where I host are doing well.

While it's obvious that tighter drinking & driving laws and smoking bans have had a negative, if not devastating effect on some of the more youthful-oriented establishments... particularly live entertainment band-bars, I see my patrons welcoming the changes. They're a little more mature than the average bar crowd, and welcome the smoke-free (and mostly drunk-free) atmosphere. And, while they don't consume as much alcohol as the younger crowds, they make up for it in sheer numbers in the seats.

We still get some younger patrons, and have several who are "regulars"... but there's been a gradual demographic shift towards an older crowd... and, being an elderly old fart myself, I welcome the change.

And so... IF you cater to the younger crowds, AND your numbers are in the "downward spiral", you might want to consider broadening your targeted clientele age group. I can almost guarantee you'll get a lot more people on the dance floor to Elvis's "Can't Help Falling In Love" than you'll get with anything from the Black-Eyed Peas or Kanye West.

As always, your mileage may vary.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

I definitely agree with this! I take alot of crap on this board for catering to non-singers pretty much equally as I cater with singers. I understand that my show is NOT typical, but it is what's best for my bar. The hardcore singers that want to sing 7-8 times a night HATE my show, but that's OK with me. Any given night, my show cycles through about 20-25 unique singers, but I bring in 100+ non-singers, most of which stay for the vast majority of my 5 hour show.

BTW, the bar is also open another hour after my show, but once my show's over, about 80% of the crowd clears out. I've told the bar owner I'd stay that extra hour for $35.00, but he has only taken me up on that offer twice in the last 5 years since the hours changed. A bit shortsighted on his part.

Anyway, all the singers who complain about my show being too busy go to this place down the street. They have karaoke 5 nights a week, so I pop in there myself from time to time. At that bar, there will be 20-30 non singers sitting at the bar, and the karaoke is designed so it's easy for those people to ignore as far as volume levels and the way the TVs are set up and all of the people funnel. If you are sitting at the bar, you can easily forget there is someone singing 50 feet to your right. In the segmented section where the karaoke happens, there will be about 20 people sitting, about 80% of which are singers. Of those, a good 30% are NOT alcohol drinkers. Most of theses singers are kinda loners whose friends are the people that they met by attending that karaoke show. Nothing wrong with that, but it is definitely true.

Now, there is a place for that brand of karaoke, and I think that is a more typical karaoke scenario than my show. HOWEVER, there is not a universe in which that type of show outdraws or outearns my show. It's night and day. And I attribute it mostly to the fact that I am entertaining everyone in the bar, not just those that are interested in the karaoke. Again, varies by venue, as there's no way my show would work at most bars, but at my venue, my show is consistently has more patrons that other shows in the area, and last I checked, that's the main goal!

Like Yogi Berra said: "Nobody goes there anymore...it's too crowded..."

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Saw this article today, no young people watching the show could translate to less interest by young people in singing themselves.

“American Idol” continued its descent into death spiral last night. The show fell to 8.3 million total viewers, with a 1.9 in the key demo. An 8.3 is very startling for “Idol,” which not so long ago had 10 or 11 million. Fox execs said not too long ago that the show was “winding down” and now it’s come to pass. Will Fox cancel it? I think it’s a strong possibility. It’s not the fault of the judges. And Jennifer Lopez performed last night! You’d think she would have brought in a few peeps. But JLO has also reached the “mature” phase of her career. She’s not the draw she used to be. And the 1.9 rating in the key demo? Ouch! That’s another all time low for “Idol,” which had been up around 2.7. It means no young people are watching the show.

FOX has stated several times within the last few months (even before this season started) this was the last year for Idol.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think that IDOL has lost it's amateur feel. So many of the contestants have been performing for years already as solo acts or in their own bands. It seems like so many of them just sing songs that they've been singing for years so they just don't have to rehearse during the week. I also think that they pick their final 24 or 30 people based on demographics more than on talent. They have people in the final 10 that will go on the IDOL Tour that have no business being there. IMHO

I have two kids, 22 & 27, both have sung karaoke with and without me. There is no way they would ever show up week after week at a karaoke show. It's generally a much older crowd that has that type of loyalty. When they're out with their friends, if a place is having karaoke they would probably sing, but as far as being loyal weekly or even monthly visitors, no way. Their generation doesn't do nightlife like that. I see that social dynamic being detrimental to the to the normal karaoke show. Besides, they'd have to get off their cell phones to come up and sing and that would be 4-5 minutes without being in contact with their social group, unacceptable.

I got many pretty loyal singers that are not only there week after week, but more often night after night - most of them are in their 20's & 30's. They come because I get stuff that nobody else seems to, plus the sound system makes them sound like they are singing at a concert - clear (not ear fatiguing) higher volume, thumpin bass, etc, rock/pop/newer country mostly. The older crowds seem to shy away from this type of setup.
Cell phone use is high, but they also are using them to video each others performances & posting them on their FB pages along with pics.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Agree with both Rick and Lonnie. It really depends on where you are and what the demographics are.

Lonnie has been at the same place, 7 nights a week, for 20+ years. It is a dream gig for cultivating regulars.

My longest running gig is just over two years, but in a part of town where there is a LOT of foot traffic. We have regulars, but on any given weekend, most of the singers are new to the venue. That is exactly what it is like tonight - 30 deep rotation and 25 of them are folks I have never seen before.

I called my host in Auburn, WA and they are packed with their 20-30 something regulars and very few new folks.

I called my host in Issaquah, WA and they have a mix of 30-40 something regulars + new folks.

The younger generation lives and dies by what is happening on their cell phones. I have seen a group of 10 leave the bar because someone got a Tweet that some bar across town was hopping. I have seen some of our venues fill up because of a Facebook post.

If your audience is the 40+ group that isn't nearly as active in Social Media, they are going to go with what they have been doing for years before the onslaught of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tumbler, etc, etc.

Figure out who is in your area and then figure out how to reach them. Once you reach them and they show up, you have to give them a reason to stay and come back.

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-Chris