Karaoke Forums

So, there is a venue in my town that is newer and one of the best establishments around. I have passively tried to book it since they opened, talking to bar tenders and leaving my card. I never went after it very hard.

When I heard they had booked karaoke, I was a little discouraged but it was my own fault for not pushing for the booking. Well, I heard all kinds of horror stories about the show when it started, and then they started doing a second night.

This is when I started having several regulars say they wanted to see me get in there. I started talking to the owner, and we planned on doing the one day while the other guy kept his original day for the time being. The owner made it clear he did not intend on keeping the guy around.

I checked out the show personally. Here is what I saw: The guy was dressed well and seemed professional. Good sign. He started late. Oh well. The mics were running way too hot and feeding back. I couldn't believe he couldn't get a better mix than that using a house system. The karaoke stand was a speaker stand he beat to hell to bolt a LCD to, which he was using the RBG component hookup, only plugged into the green so everything was tinted green. Really? He took several cigarette breaks throughout the night. When he did, the same filler song would play two and three times over, using only 3 or 4 filler songs all night. I found out later that he also drank outside while smoking, and would be plastered by the end of the night most times. I was there for the whole show, and only sang twice. When I brought my own flash drive up, he wouldn't let me sing from it claiming that he could only use his licensed music, and that he was the only DJ in Michigan licensed with BMI. All the while he was streaming KaraFun karaoke, for which he also claims to have paid $900 for the software, and any non-Karafun tracks were mostly Sound Choice. So, obviously, a million red flags there. No need for me to point out each individual one.

Well, he heard that signers wanted to get me in there. He posted on facebook "You have the nerve to come after my show I will take all of yours" and made it a point to come to my show last Saturday to "check it out". Apparently last night he did something really bad and offended several of the clientele and he was fired today and I got a call from the owner to start both days next week.

I guess I better watch out, he's coming after my shows now.... Normally I would never pursue another show, but considering how bad this was I had no issues with going for it. I have a lot of respect for local hosts, including Troy (on the forums here) and Armon and Debbie, but when they are as shady as this guy, sorry...you are an easy target. I've been doing this for seven years now and have built a decent reputation and have invested over $20,000 over the last seven years. This guy spent next to nothing and talked a big talk.

The owner of the bar is great when it comes to entertainment. he gives away a ton of gift certificates to singers and tries to boost the shows. I only wish my other shows would make that kind of effort. I'm hoping this goes well, we shall see...

Congrats on getting the extra night and blowing him out. BTW, where is the venue that you speak of in Michigan?

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Can't he smoke inside on the stage?

There are probably NO SMOKING laws which doesn't allow for that.

I won't play off somebody's flash drive either. Piracy. I used to drink on stage and be pretty happy by the end of the night. I can't do that anymore for health reasons but if I could I would. I agree that there is no excuse for taking a break and filler music is for people without imaginations. Another county heard from....

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Okay, who took my pants?

I won't play off a USB drive primarily because it is silly to stick a foreign memory stick in your PC. Just asking for malware that way. It isn't even that someone would do it on purpose. Most karaoke singers are NOT super computer literate and wouldn't even know their memory stick is compromised.

The piracy issue is secondary to me in this case but would also be a no go even if one of my Microsoft Security Expert friends brought one in. If you want me to play the music you bring from home, bring the original manufacturer disc. Period.

That said, it has been a LONG time since anyone brought any of their own music to one of my shows now. And not just MY shows that I host. To ANY of the 21 shows we do every week at 7 different venues. Physical media is dead, has been dead, and is basically only used by the folks who bought it 10-15 years ago when it was the only way to get karaoke music.

Even the RedBox folks know that they have a limited lifespan -

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... vd-rentals

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-Chris

I hope you were only talking about this lazy host's brand of filler. Otherwise, MAN is that an ignorant statement. I might have to tape my show for you and show you the imagination that goes into my filler.

Dead air is for people without imaginations

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Who said anything about dead air? They just heard music. The crowd needs a break from it or the music (singers) aren't special. That's why people sing karaoke... to feel special.

I would love to hear a recording of your show. Maybe you've got something great that the rest of us can learn from.

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Okay, who took my pants?

so it's ok for you to convert your original discs to a digital format and leave your original discs at home but it's not ok for anyone else to do the same thing and bring a digital copy to your show? Maybe you should start auditing all of your singing customers karaoke libraries? You might even try charging them for the privilege. I would think , with all of your computer smarts, it would be tough for someone to sneak any malware into your system?

More excuses and more hypocrisy. Do as I say. Not as I do.

Actually, if they want to go through the same audit I went through and bring their hard drive/thumb drive in, by all means. I am holding them to the same standards that I adhere to. Since they likely won't do it, then they can't meet my standard. Not to mention I probably already have or I can buy and download on the fly what they want. They can leave their discs and thumb drives at home. no need to carry it around and run the risk if loss or theft. I am actually doing them a service.

Besides, I don't need to support doing something that no one in my area does. I certainly don't have to support it because some self-proclaimed advocate for karaoke singers everywhere - that lives across the country from me - that will never be in my clubs - who seems to have nothing better to do than cry about how it should be instead of how it is - says I need to.

No one complains about it here. There is no issue with it here. You are just trying to manufacture a situation that does not exist. You want it to be your way because you believe there is no other possible viable alternative. Yet my alternative works. That must completely baffle and infuriate you.

Good.

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-Chris

What's the policy on Karaoke-Version? They are download only, and I have burned the downloaded tracks onto CD-R in CDG format. I have these, a few manufacturer discs and a ton of customs. So far every KJ has played the home-made Karaoke-Version discs, but I could understand if they wouldn't if they are a squeaky clean host and are concerned about the provenance of these tracks.

I consider it a waste of time to take a track that is only available via download and burn it to disc. I am absolutely biased in this regard. I don't care what KaraokeVerion policy is around this because I won't ever "media shift" the files I download from them.

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-Chris

It is possible to play a USB stick Chris on a karaoke player that has a USB port, that way you wouldn't have to run the risk of infecting your main PC. It would require some work on your part and of course break up your normal routine. You set the bar up so high that few people that bring their own material would come to your show. Then your show is not geared to a group that invested in their material 10-15 years ago. You play to a younger audience, and basically ignore a large segment of the market the "Baby Boomers". You wonder why the old style manus are dying, you said it yourself physical media is dead, the same form of media that SC and other now defunct former producers stayed with. The home market is dead because why should anyone buy material, the host will buy all the material and absorb all the cost. All the patron has to do is show up and use your material, that is fine with young people not with patrons that have already spent the money and want to use their material.

It is this attitude and the attitude of other PC hosts that created my niche market and provided me a good source of income for many years. Many older patrons came to my show because I would play their material and this provided me with a loyal following that attended my shows several times a week. I was never sued individually so I must have been driving between the lines, other wise I would have been pulled over. Physical media is not dead it is alive and well and used, just not at your shows, due to your policies.

Getting back to the shady host, the host maybe shady but he also has what I call bad hosting habits. The drinking on the job is a definite no no, smoking is also a problem. I don't know many hosts that still smoke, most have quit because of health issues. I never started so I'm very happy that California has banned smoking for sometime in all public places. It does take away from the show if the host has to duck out every 15 minutes to light up. This particular bad host cannot be upsetting patrons, and he does have to learn how to run his equipment properly. He is not running his service as a business, rather he is showing he does not have a clue on how to run a business. I would be very careful about threats, most of the time they mean little, there is the possibility that the host might in some way try to undermine your new show. I would be on my guard and be watchful for the next few weeks.

Baffled? Me? Not very likely.
If someone has their computer hooked up to their sound system at home and they use karaoke videos that are all over youtube to practice with; are they a pirate too? They are doing the same thing that many MIRC users are doing. They are using a track that they didn't buy to practice with. There are many people that use the MIRC sites that are not karaoke hosts. They just download songs that they would like to practice before they go to their local karaoke venue to sing them in public so they don't embarrass themselves. What's the difference between downloading the song and just playing it on youtube? Your buddy Kurt doesn't get compensated in either situation so is there a difference? Are all of the youtube users pirates too? That 90% number might be on it's way up. I hear that there are some KJ's that use those youtube videos to do their shows. Oh Lord! What has the world come to? I went to a brand new show for me over the weekend, Chris. I handed the KJ my discs with my home made songs and he didn't even blink an eye. He even complimented me on the nice big fonts that I use to help me with my vision problems. I think I might be covered under "The ADA". That would be the Americans with Disabilities Act, in case you didn't know.

I disagree.



There is content that is allowed on YouTube and content that is not allowed. YouTube doesn't do a very good job policing what is allowed and not allowed, or at least that don't proactively take down content that generates advertising revenue for them. Can't really blame the everyday Internet user for not knowing what is allowed and not allowed in this case because it is ubiquitous.



No. They are not.

YouTube is a ubiquitous service that just about everyone has heard of. The content being viewed is never actually possessed by the viewer.

iRC and MiRC are substantially more obscure and are not necessarily easy to figure out without help. The content downloaded from iRC servers ends up in the possession of and then gets further distributed by the end users. While I believe it should be obvious to those people that what they are doing is theft, it apparently isn't so obvious. The folks that package up the scripts for the various karaoke iRC servers, make it seem like they are a harmless community of karaoke enthusiasts, that use automated scripts to swap files and stream karaoke radio stations. Many of the folks here know perfectly well that this kind of file swapping is illegal, but they do it anyway. Anyone that hangs out there for any amount of time will figure out the same even if they were initially duped into thinking it was free and harmless.

The fact remains - companies are creating products to sell for a profit that your "enthusiasts" are obtaining for free. They are impacting the bottom line of the companies and they are violating intellectual property rights. It is not harmless.



So practice equals free now? You just want to practice a song so you should not be required to pay for it? What makes you so special that just because you want to practice it, you don't have to obtain it in a way that isn't stealing it?



Oh. So they don't embarrass themselves. If they are so concerned about being embarrassed at a karaoke bar, then cough up a couple bucks to buy the track and learn it. They should be embarrassed that they can't afford to pay a couple bucks for a song.



Explained above. But if you still don't get it, then you are completely disconnected from reality.



It isn't just Kurt, you dolt. It is EVERY company. It is EVERY rights holder. It is EVERY artist. Your obsession with Kurt blinds you against the reality of the broad set of people that are actually impacted by it.



I am not bound by the ADA to let you use your self-created, pirated, large font karaoke music. Simple as that. You know perfectly well that just because you have a disability, doesn't give you the right to steal someone's work and modify it. you do so because it doesn't cost you anything but some time. If you want larger fonts, write a letter to the karaoke companies and get them to make bigger fonts.

Bruce, you can try to justify it all you want, but the karaoke companies are for profit. Just like the grocery store. Just like the gas station. Just like the drug manufacturers. Just like countless of other companies that choose to produce products that people desire and make a profit from supplying to the demand. I don't know of ANY for profit company that is okay with someone stealing their product and impacting their bottom line. Zero. Zilch. None.

Just because the karaoke industry (and music and video and movies and pictures) have content that can be exactly duplicated and redistributed doesn't mean that it should.

All of your arguments for the free (stolen) use of the karaoke content just to practice or because someone is not a host or because someone can't see very well don't hold any water. It is theft.

And btw.....if so many of the MiRC folks aren't hosts, then why do then need 5 thousand tracks? 25 thousand tracks? 750 thousand tracks? They don't.

Finally......You know how I practice most karaoke? I listen to the original artist track and memorize the lyrics. That's how I keep myself from being embarrassed. Try it sometime.

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-Chris

Did you know that it is possible to download videos from youtube and keep them?.....just like keeping a CDG file from MIRC Channels??? So because YOUTUBE is everywhere, you seem to think that it isn't as bad as MIRC Channels. I would have thought that your opinion would be just the opposite. The average karaoke enthusiast knows how to download from youtube but can't figure out how MIRC works without help, according to you. I never said that you were BOUND to do anything. All I am saying is that over 90% of karaoke hosts are more than happy to play anything that I bring to their shows. They actually would prefer it if I were to bring them on a flash drive so they could copy them without my knowledge in a more timely manner. Since I don't sell my tracks to anyone; I don't have to worry about them showing up on any sharing sites. Funny thing though is that some of them have actually turned up on a MIRC channel or two. I guess some unscrupulous KJ copied some of my discs while I was waiting to sing at their show. Oh well. Somehow I'll survive.

Some people have a knack for memorizing things and some people don't. I've tried just listening to the original singer's version of a song and sometimes I can't even figure out what the lyrics are. Sometimes the lyrics on a karaoke track are wrong as well. The song Knee Deep by the Zac Brown Band comes to mind. I don't think any of the karaoke producers got the lyrics right on that one......but I did.....with a nice big fat 20 font to boot.

Just a quick technical point: Lone Ranger mentioned using a player for customer sticks as a safe alternative to the PC.

While this will keep the PC safe, it's not such a good idea if you value your player.

Modern players -those that have USB and card ports - can also have their firmware corrupted. I learned this the hard way. I don't normally use the ports because they are such a PITA to manage trackwise, but I was doing a private event, and the client asked that I just play filler during dinner. She then asked if I would play from her stick, just going all the way through - no track selections required, just press play.

I normally play my own discs and take requests, but it was her birthday, it was a small event, and she was paying me. Yup, I caught "the stupid" and did it. Never again. Just glad I had a back-up player.

Took out not only the lyric decoder, but any newer original discs that were made in mp3 (luckily, I had very few of those at that time) were completely un -useable. Not even audio.

I"m with Chris in regard to new songs. I sing along with the original. I do cheat a little though. I play then in the home karaoke setup in case I have to change key (usually dropping).

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I worded that badly, it should've been "What is YOUR policy?"