Karaoke Forums

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Welcome to the forum Mrs. Paradigm.

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KNOW THYSELF

Wow! What a shocker! Another singing host that thinks that a host Should Sing in every rotation. Another Master of her own domain. WElcome aboard indeed.

I think that the average karaoke singer expects to sing around 3 to 4 times at their regular karaoke night if they are there from the start of the show. On a less crowded night, they might get 5 or 6 chances to sing. I think in these situations, most singers don't really mind if the KJ is singing an equal amount of times as everyone else. When the rotation is in the 30 to 35 person realm; there is a good chance that some people who were there at the very beginning of the show might only get to sing once. If the show started at 9PM, the 35th singer probably wouldn't sing his first song until 11:20 or so. If the show was over at 1AM, it is not very likely that the singers after the 22nd singer would get to sing a second song. If the KJ didn't take up 2 spots, 2 more paying customers would get a chance to sing a second song. If I were the MASTER of Ceremonies, I would give those 2 spots to the people who come out to support my show on a regular basis. I might even make it a point to announce that I won't be singing on this very busy night so more of my paying customers could get more opportunities to sing themselves. I'm sure that my customers wold hate me for it. NOT! I believe that is called: UNSELFISH! Have a great day.

Believe me, your customers don't need you as a marker. They know exactly when it's their turn to sing.

Do you see how KJ's try to justify why they need to sing?

Questions:

If you were a bartender, would you drink with your customers?
If you were a waitress, would you eat with your customers?

A KJ is very much like a bartender or a waitress. They are providing a service. They're not there to "sing" with their customers. Just like a bartender is not there to "drink" with their customers.

Can I sing? Yes, I can sing very well and do get requests to sing. However, I believe I'm not there to sing, I'm there to provide a service for my customers. Karaoke is about (for me anyway) my guests, not about me. And I continually will do everything I can to make sure every one of my customers has a great time, every time! I make it about them, NOT me. Sure I could include myself into the rotation and sing in every round. But why would I want to do that and take away valuable time that may afford a singer to sing a couple more times that night. Like I said, I make it about my customers. If someone asks me to sing a duet with them, I will oblige, and it will be on their turn.

Anyway, this has been discussed to death. No matter what, you are always going to have KJ's who make it about themselves. They need to sing because of their egos. Because it's a power trip. Because they can and simply don't care about running a quality show.

I say, if you want to sing, come and set up early to the venue and sing before your show starts. Get it out of your system. OR... go to a karaoke show on your off nights.

Anyway, like I said above, a KJ is there to provide a service just like the bartender, or waitress.

Welcome to the forum.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I commend you for standing your ground on this. I really do. But if you look at this thread, and then add this to how few complaints from customers (for me...Zero) any of the KJ's have had about singing in their own rotations, it is clear you are in the minority.

The average singer doesn't care about the host singing in their own rotations and the certainly don't get as bent out of shape as Alan B. does if the host sings at all.

I don't even understand why you continue to push this subject when it is clear that you are in the minority and there isn't a single host that has said "You are right, I am going to do it the way Bruce says to do it!".

You aren't going to change anyone's mind.

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-Chris

Hypothetical question for Alan B.

Let's suppose one of your singers suggested to you that your way of handling your rotation is wrong. Would you spit in his face? Would you call him a "piece of sh-t" like you did to me? C'mon, be honest Alan. In that scenario, you're not hiding behind an anonymous keyboard knowing, or at least hoping, you'll never have to face the person you threaten. You're face-to-face with a real, live person. Would you actually spit in his face?

Just as I thought.

No cojones.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

I'M IN THE MINORITY BECAUSE MOST SINGERS JUST KEEP THEIR DISPLEASURE TO THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T THINK THAT COMPLAINING TO A KJ WILL GET THEM ANYWHERE BECAUSE MOST KJs ARE CONTROL FREAKS THAT WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR SHOW THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THEIR ABILITY TO SHOWCASE THEMSELVES.

Their have been plenty of hosts here who have already said that they take themselves out of the rotation after they get 5 singers. Some take themselves out of the rotation after they get 10 singers. Some don't sing at all. I guess those posts just don't count as votes against the way you run your shows because you only see what you want to see. There are very few pure singers that post on these forums any longer because they know their complaints will be dismissed by the all knowing KJs that dominate these forums. They have been beaten into submission by the likes of you and a few others. There used to be a lot more singers in the Singers Showcase too but their numbers have dwindled as well. Most people got tired of reading all of the glowing reviews of terrible off key singers. Lonman will even post a song every now and then but he doesn't even allow to people to comment on his submissions and he's a moderator of the forums. He doesn't need a couple of dozen people telling him how great he is to know that he can sing well. There are many others though who (@$%&#!) and moan about people leaving anything less than a rating of TEN when most of their songs would honestly receive less than FIVE. If someone has the nerve to leave an honest opinion, that isn't a ball of fluff, he or she is shunned by the group or is banned by a moderator. I don't mind being the voice of reason for all of those singers out there that have given up the fight against the Masters of the karaoke world....the all knowing and powerful KJs.

Have a great day.

Even I take myself out of my rotations after I get to 13 singers. So I am not in disagreement with you about removing myself from my rotations.

However, you continue to beat down us all-knowing, all-powerful KJ's because we still don't do things EXACTLY the way you wants us too. This is in spite of the fact that few to none of us are within your sphere of influence.

If you have convinced the KJ's local to you to run things your way because you are the all-powerful, all-knowing singer whose $25 a night will make or break a show, then more power to you. But are not going to convince the rest of the KJ's to change, especially those who KNOW that how we run our shows works for us.

You are like that kid in the grocery store line that wants the Angry Birds candy but mom says no. Most of us are the parents that stand our ground and firmly say NO. And we are the right ones by the way. It isn't an ego thing, its just the way things are.

BTW, you keep referring to the "average singer". My average singers are folks that like to have fun. They aren't counting how many times they get up. They aren't trying to get up more often than someone else. They already know that they will only get to sing twice, maybe 3 times a night because that is how busy my places are.

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-Chris

Why do you take yourself out of the rotation at 13 singers, Chris?

I'm not focusing my opinions on this topic on people who take themselves out of the rotation at a reasonable point like 5 singers or 10 singers or even 13 singers. I'm focused on the guy who stays in the rotation when there are 30 or more singers in the rotation with the attitude that "It's My Show and You Can't Stop Me".

Interesting, because I don't think anyone here has said they stay in the rotation when it is that heavy. I mentioned I might jump in to break up a ballad chain, and I believe some others as well. But I don't think anyone has said they insist on singing every rotation, every night, no matter what on heavy nights.

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-Chris

Then you've been skipping around and missing some posts.

First of all, I never called you a POS. As far as the spitting goes, I said it makes me want to spit in their face. Of course, I would never really do that.

So, don't take it personally Earl. I was not singling you out. So lets get something straight... whether or not I agree with how you run your rotation, and I don't, I would never revert to deviant tactics or personal attacks.

One more thing Earl: I do like everyone on this forum, including you. I may not always agree with everyone's way of doing things but it doesn't mean that I don't like you. This in not the first time a topic caused controversy and it won't be the last. But with that said, all in all, this is still a great bunch of people.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

You may not have called him a POS - but you included him in your generalized statement including any kj that sings!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No sir. Many customers have no idea when they are up. Many customers rely on me to announce when their turn is coming up. Many rely on the scroller on the screen. Many people from those two groups still need to see their name on the screen and hear me call them to the stage. Quite a few ask when their turn is, especially newcomers.



Who the hell cares? Do you really think that the customer requires justification?



You keep going back to the service they are providing. I'd like to point out that the service these people are providing also includes a physical, consumable product: food and/or drink.

The services that I provide all support the intangible, spontaneous and fleeting moment(s) we humans call "Entertainment". This entertainment is a subset of the subset we call "Music". It is a warped and twisted and fun part of music that we have all chosen to participate in.

Questions:

If you were an Open-Mic Host, would you play or sing a song or two during the course of the event?
If you were the coordinator of a music festival, would you expect to at least have the same opportunity to book your act into the festival as any other musician?

The karaoke shows that I produce have a party atmosphere. There is HUGE emphasis on the social aspect of meeting, mixing, mingling, SINGING and ENJOYING the show. Where was it written that the host doesn't get to enjoy the party?



Careful, this could be seen as an admission of the possession of an ego (god forbid).



I would contend that I provide every/all service that you do in addition to singing a song or two and sometimes more during an evening of live entertainment.



Again, I would point out that NOT ONE SINGLE CUSTOMER has CONTROL over who signs up, who sings what, when we start or when we finish, or how many people sign up at the start, middle or ending of the event.

So, I will ask again: Who? Who exactly (besides yourself) DO you, as a singer, go to karaoke to listen to? Is there a magic number that makes you leave? When do you stop having a good time at a karaoke show and start fretting about who is singing and keeping you from getting another turn?



Check your math. A 4-5 hour show with a running queue of 15-20 singers would allow ONLY the singers who were there the WHOLE night an opportunity of singing 1 more song and then, if everyone stayed, only a couple of them would get that opportunity before time ran out. You would also have to take into account those people who are there for just a PART of the whole show who sing one and leave or sing one and drop out of the rotation for a while and then sign up again. There are so many variables that the event could lose time to that have absolutely nothing to do with WHO is singing.



--- I make it about my customers. If someone asks me to sing a duet with them, I will oblige and it will be whoever's turn we agree upon because I am there to facilitate enjoyment.



No matter what you are going to have people who disparage others because of their own sanctimony, insecurity, and self-centered views of others. They need to lash out and insult and indulge their judgmental attitudes towards others because that is how they cope with being treated that way themselves by people in a position of power over them. Because they see EVERYTHING as a power struggle. They simply cannot comprehend how quality and success can occur outside of and in spite of their own little world construct.



I say, if you want to sing - GO FOR IT! -, it isn't serious. It is about fun. Ignore the people who don't get that. Provide the best service you can and enjoy the perks of your occupation. Don't isolate yourself from the singers and/or audience. Be a part of your show.

I'll be honest with you, I rarely go out for late night entertainment anymore. I mean, I will go to dinner or to a concert or a movie but with the distances involved in travel in the mountains as well as the fact that I've only encountered 1 legit host within 150 miles I don't have the motivation to attend karaoke on my off nights after producing 4 or more shows that week.



This reminds me of another exceeding negative individual who likened KJ's and customers to "an organ grinder" and their "monkey".



I too would like to welcome Mrs. Paradigm to the forum and... you nailed it with that post Mrs. P.

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Never the same show twice!

Hell, I can't sing very well at all but I've been requested to do repeats of some of the goofy things I've done, like my Shaggy impersonation.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

As for me, I would much rather sing two songs at a show that is FUN versus 10 songs at a bad show. What makes karaoke fun for me is when you have a good crowd that truly appreciates what you are singing. I enjoy performing, not merely hearing my voice over a PA system.

The people who continually complain and whine about "fairness" are not the type of people you really want at a karaoke show in the first place. These are the people who complain about other things besides KJ singing such as KJs making announcements (believe it or not) or they gripe about the KJ allowing unusually long songs to be sung. Remember, karaoke is about FUN.

It's kind of funny. Someone starts a thread about KJs singing too much and the KJs who sing too much all fight for their right to party while they are supposed to be working. Their attitude is that if you don't like it, go somewhere else. A singer posts his opinions on the topic and he is basically told the same thing. Your complaints are not welcome here in Kumbaya Land so we're just going to delete anything you post that we don't agree with. Kind of the same thing. If you don't like something that we KJs do; we will band together and make your posts invisible. No sense making posts when they will all just get deleted.

I think it's time to give the Masters what they want. I'll take a self imposed time out to let you guys have control over your sand box. I'll stick to posting the occasional song on the Singers Showcase and you guys can get back to agreeing with one another. BORING!!!!

It's about time!

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

My tweets were deleted too, and I just want to apologize for my tangent.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast