Karaoke Forums

You misunderstood. My comment was specifically geared toward BruceFan4Life. It isn't geared toward all singers all the time. Just the ones like Bruce that think anyone that doesn't do it his way can't be a good host.

I wish I were just being paid to make singers happy. If that were the case I would double my rates and change a lot about my show. Fact is, my real job (as I have mentioned many times now) is to attract and retain people that spend money. Just so happens a lot of the folks also have a great time and hopefully leave happy.

Ask a bar owner "Was it a good night?". They won't tell you "Everyone was happy, so, sure!". Nope. They will count the till and then tell you based on that.

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-Chris

To repeat my signature "My job is to keep more people coming back.... than people leaving, and never coming back"

I know it seems like I am looking at this through a single lens. I guess it is the computer tech, engineer, logic side that has me ask "What is the ultimate goal?". With almost no exceptions, the goal is for the bar to provide a service that increases their bottom line.

The way we go about doing this as karaoke hosts is to provide a fun, safe, activity where people enjoy themselves, have a great time, and want to come back again and again. Of course we try to make people happy (because that helps us achieve our goal). Of course we try to run a fair rotation (moves us toward goal). We do lots of things that help us achieve the goal of making money for the bar.

I have seen a small handful of hosts over the years (it isn't common) that focus so much on having fun that they lose sight of the ultimate goal - make money for the bar. They end up losing the gigs because they end up with a narrow audience that enjoys whatever antics they deliver but alienate a broader community of potential regulars.

This whole discussion about whether a host sings in their own rotation is silly because it impacts very little in the grand scheme of things. The hosts that abuse their own stages will pay the price over time. Those that don't can potentially thrive and prosper.

The online (@$%&#!) slapping of each other is pointless because few, if any of us, will change how we do things just because some person we have never met, and will never come to our shows, tells us we suck.

Run your show your way, make your customers come back in a way that works out for you and the bar, and let everyone else do the same.

We all have our reasons for being involved in karaoke. I don't expect everyone to understand what mine are, and I won't necessarily understand why anyone else does this (I think we are all crazy!).

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-Chris

I have a very good friend that fills in for me when I am busy and he says "Running a karaoke show causes brain damage" ....... he may be right!

This is one time I have to agree with Chris the bottom line is the bottom line. You can have the best night, the best singers, no technical problems and still come up short as far as the venue is concerned, if the bar total doesn't justify the cost of the karaoke service. Unfortunately a host is only as good to the average manager or venue owner as the last time he played. If low bar totals continue for any length of time, then naturally the venue will search for a replacement. What they want to see is a steady return on their entertainment costs. Due to the up and down short term nature of the crowds almost an impossible situation to maintain, that is why you have to swing for the average. Hopefully that average is enough for the venue to want to keep you around.

I can't speak for the others, but I openly admit to being that.

Ok From what I've pointed out. Catering to your customer will create exactly what you're looking for. Big numbers very night. Or at least better than average. Bar owners do look at numbers. You create numbers by keeping customers happy and them wanting to come back. Not creating customers that can't wait to get home run ya down on Yelp and blogs because you're putting on a show and making your customer wait to sing because you've got to be the center of attention of your own show.

As I've mentioned before. I've never once seen a complaint on any Blog or any Yelp review that ever said "The host didn't sing enough for my taste, I don't recommend this place because the host isn't singing enough" However, most Karaoke venues I see complaints from customers all the time the host loves to sing and likes to more than his customers or plays favorites etc.

So on the whole. The Complaints many hosts get is they sing too much. Listening to the arguments that defend that attitude doesn't hold up. There are always exceptions as have been mentioned in the other thread. But I'm still waiting to hear about one complaint that the Host doesn't sing enough and customers are so mad about they won't go back.

My wife is an excellent singer and does not have the need to sing at our show or any one else's show. She has sung on large stages, with large audiences, doing solo performances. Rarely does a night go by that several people don't ask "will you sing for us this evening?" Frequently her reply is "there are already plenty of good singers", but once a month she will sing at our show.

Now you have it TedJankowski

The dispute seems to be over what "too much" really means.

I think we can all agree that singing more times in a night than any of your singers is probably "too much". But it quickly starts to vary as to whether hosts should or want to sing once per rotation. Or if they take themselves out after X number of people in the rotation. Or if they sing at all. It really becomes a matter of preference and style at some point and on that we should all just agree to disagree.

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-Chris

Well said, Chris.



And we all know how truthful and honest Yelp is!!!!! Yelp is full of PLANTS. I wonder how many of those nasty reviews you specifically refer to were written by a rival KJ, just to make the other KJ look bad... keep in mind, the same holds true for the positive reviews... How many of those reviews were made by the Venue Staff and Management or from the Regulars who are friends with the KJ?

I would agree that the number of How much is too much is somewhat a matter of opinion. So then it boils down to whose opinion is the one that counts? Is it the host, is it the owner of the venue, is it their customer. Since customers normally vote their favorites with their pocketbooks and recommendations the worst with their pocketbooks and their criticism. People that recommend bring their friends and return regularly. People that criticize return rarely and run their mouths all over town. I don't believe people run all over town just to criticize a another bar. Nor am i convinced that many of the yelp reviews are plants. I'm sure there are a few. But small enough not not make much of a difference.

My apology is that I would rather hear people complain that I don't sing enough when I'm hosting than get one complaint that I sing too much. 20 years ago the standard was for companies. If they received one compliant from a customer that was considered to be 20. Because studies showed that only about 1 in 20 people will take the time call, write or even say anything. (Now that number may have changed) I look at it when you're running a business that 20 singers is small but passable level of rotation. One person may not be representative of the whole crowd. But if one feels that way and is willing to say something. Then there are many more that aren't saying anything.

I believe this concept of not singing or rarely singing in my shows proves itself out. Since I know of quite a few hosts that don't sing and I've never seen or heard one review or one public complaint that they don't sing enough. Where as I've seen many on yelp of bars I've been to and some I haven't. And find many times where customers are angry enough to post their feelings and observations about not getting to sing because the host was singing or playing favorites.

The thing I've noticed with most karaoke hosts that sing is the same problems I see on shows like bar rescue. The owners are not customer oriented. They look at their business as it's theirs and they will do what they want to. I love that Taffer first goes to yelp before even walking into the bar. And do you know what the common thread is. He finds many reviews that overwhelmingly spot on the money. Personally I never used to use yelp until I seen how taffer was able to use that information to know exactly what the problems were. I not only use it before going to a bar or restaurant but will review it after going. Ones that i find bad, will either need to fail miserably on the first visit, or I'll go at different times before doing a review. If they fail, I'll point out where and what they do good. And I do review the karaoke hosts also. So if that makes me a plant so be it. I usually mention in my reviews that I also host. So I'm not just blasting a host. I've given raving compliments on some and ripped apart others. The interesting thing is that When i do. I'm not the only one saying it. There are many other reviews that will say essentially the same thing. And I do understand the some reviews by the 23 year old hottie who is treated a little differently than the middle aged overweight guy there to sing karaoke. So when they leave reviews I understand why they loved the place. Oh the Host was so Nice, I got to many times, etc etc. I'm not jealous I rather enjoy eye candy when it's there.

That is something that is completely out of your control. It wouldn't bother or affect me in anyway. If someone was to ask why she left I'd just be straightforward an honest. 15 minutes to get her song in was too long. NOT sarcastically, just as a matter of factually.

I never let what I cannot control bother me. It's what I can control. Same thing with an hour or longer wait. I have no control over how many people want to sing. No amount of tip is going to get me to let you slide in. It is what it is. Simple response now is. It's been a busy night and I'm trying to get everyone up as soon as possible. As it stands now soon as possible is about an hour and half down the road.

I know if I go somewhere and it's a 2 hour wait. I'll probably leave. But I'm not leaving angry, I'm leaving to go out and blog how unfair it is. I'm leaving because the lineup is too long for me and I'll try back another day when it's not so busy. I had a host get pissed at me because I left one time. At the time I was only another singer I used to have his card in my pocket and give out his number at other venues. Had a really good hosting company. He got pissed at me because I didn't want to wait two hours. I'm thinking, I'll try to get there sooner on the next night I come out. Next thing I know he's bad mouthing me and telling me I can't sing at his shows anymore. Then later down the road he expected an apology. I had no problem throwing his card away. and becoming a thorn in his side. Especially, if I knew he was trying to get into another venue. I don't get other hosts sometimes.

That was part of the reason I went ahead and got my own equipment and disks. I figured if this is how hosts act when you support them and their show. It shouldn't be to difficult to get the business they chance away.

Huh?????????????????????????????????????? Please translate.

I wish i could. I went to one of his shows one night and it was busier than I anticipated put in one song then left right after that. This was a guy that before I became a host myself I used to carry his card in my pocket and give out his number for other venues for him more gigs.
He was pissed I didn't stay for one of his shows and left. I hope I never become a host that acts that way.

Just for the record, I completely understood your post the first time you posted it, Ted. You used to be a good friend of this guy and you even tried to promote his karaoke company to bars and restaurants in the area and he still treated you like crap after you walked out on just ONE of his shows because you didn't feel like waiting 2 hours to sing a song. He took it personally because, to him, you hurt his feelings by leaving. He took your leaving as an insult to himself. This is a sure sign of someone who has an ego problem. He expected you, out of some off the wall sense of loyalty, to stay at his show no matter how long the wait was instead of understanding that time was your motivating factor and not your degree of friendship.

Sometimes I would stay, but that night I had other pans and hadn't panned on staying long in the first place. But, as far as I'm concerned. That's ridiculous. I'd been back when I planned on staying longer. Why get ticked over something so stupid.

like you were somehow responsible for his night? that's just asinine, you didn't OWE him anything.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Hosts singing at their own shows is par for the course around here (South Florida). Customers who frequent different karaoke shows don't feel one way or another about it because just about every show seems to be about the host.

That being said, the ones where the host(s) DON'T sing... well, customers aren't really prepared to wait 2 hours to sing.

I can't believe that last Sat. night the rotation was big enough that I said over the PA that I wasn't going to have to sing. Some folks got mad at me! Then I repeated that don't have to sing but I would if they wanted me to. I did two duets and five others by request, I still don't think I'm that good.

I sing at my shows but never more than my singers. It's not about me because after I get 8 singers I bow out and only sing if needed for a duet.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.