Karaoke Forums

What makes a great Karaoke contest? Is it the size of the prize, the bragging rights won, is it that competition is fun no matter what you do? There are likely a thousand reasons why people love (and hate) karaoke contests. That said, my girlfriend is a CruisePlanner. We are looking for insight into how to run a great Karaoke Contest. We are going to create and run Karaoke Contest cruises. They will be high-end large cash prize contests and the cash prizes increases with the number of participants.

American Idol, America's Got Talent, The Voice, The X Factor - they are all examples of top end competitions. Freddie's neighborhood bar, the VFW, El Torito's, these are all the run of the mill places one might enter a contest.

I would love to hear what YOU have to say about contests, the good, the bad, and the really ugly...

My thoughts? Ask if you want, but I am not promoting our project here. I just want to come up with a great formula for putting together a GREAT contest with anywhere between $1000 and $6000 first prize, and payouts to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place winners.

How about it?

Usually it's higher $$$ that make a great contest - both in singing & bringing in people that spend to support them - the contestants themselves may not be spending, but in my experience they do bring in those that do. But you also have to consider in a regular club setting, it's also going to bring out the contest hoppers - those that seek out contests as a way to supplement their income. In a cruise setting where there are no regulars, everyone will go on their merry way after it's done. Sure they may be pissed, but they aren't the ones you are trying to keep happy either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I don't think of those tv shows as top end competitions. They aren't about the talent; they focus on the back stories and the drama. Their purpose is not to bring in good singers with top talent; their purpose is to bring in as many viewers as possible and they don't accomplish that through the music.

I have seen better singers with more talent and ability to entertain at Freddie's neighborhood bar, the VFW, El Torito's, or any of the run of the mill places one might enter a contest. And those who come to watch the singers at these places are there for the music, not the drama.

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KNOW THYSELF

Ok here is the really ugly truth about karaoke contests, they work at best short term. You has a host spend a great deal of time and effort to build up your business, to have a following, to create a certain atmosphere around your show. The contest disrupts all of that, for the sake of a cheap sugar rush. There is no way to avoid the after contest blues and let down that comes after the stimulation of the contest, unless the venue you work for is having a continual 12 week contest cycle that never stops. Judges can be influenced, as Lonnie mentions the professional contest hoppers, the ringers try to steal and upset the results, collect their money and go on their merry way. It is the karaoke host that has to deal with the after contest problems, and start rebuilding his show again. Sometimes that rebuilding process can be long and difficult, some patrons you have long and deep relationships with might stop coming to your show, they may feel cheated or betrayed. In 19 years I never did one of these contests, when the matter was brought up, I told the venue owner the negatives outweighed the positives. I will not even judge one of these contests, since even my opinion is totally subjective, I just admit it, others don't. I must confess though If another host asked me if I thought he should do a contest, I never pointed out the problems, I just told him if he wanted to do it go ahead. After the contests I would always get my share of the losers, sometimes for good.

Karaoke Night is fun for everyone. Karaoke Comtest Night is only fun for one person. Two if you count the bar owner. The main problem is that every singer but one feels like they got screwed over. I lost to girl one night who basically did a strip tease while she sang completely off key. and lost one other time to the Bartender's girlfriend, who could actually sing well, but she messed up the lyrics quite a few songs when she sang her final song. So many people were coming up to me congratulating me before the results were announced. After the announcement that the Bartender's girlfriend was the winner, those same people came over to our booth to tell me how sorry they were about the results. It was kind of like going out to dinner and getting food poisoning.

To L.R. - The "really ugly truth" is you have no idea what you're talking about... You admit that you haven't done a contest in 19 years, yet you're trying to come off as some kind of expert. To bastardize an old saying "Them that can, do. Them that can't, grumble."

To the OP... don't listen to the nay-sayers. Contests can and do work, and work very well. But ONLY if they're run properly.

I've been running very successful contests for the past eight years... Great prizes... SRO crowds... and participants who show up year after year... with very few complaints.

General statements like "Contests don't work", are simply not true, period. They may not work for you, but that just tells me that you're not doing it right.

Having said all that, I've never run a cruise contest, so I don't feel I'm competent to comment on the viability..

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

Generally speaking Earl they are a short term fix, slow and steady is what builds a successful karaoke service business. The contest is all sizzle and no steak. You can't escape the fact that after the contest there is a let down, and people that are unhappy. I never had to rely on contests to boost my shows attendance, and until partial retirement I was working 6 days a week 10 months out of the year. How many days do you work a week at the Moose? You are just a year older than me I will be 69 in July. I never needed contests so if it ain't broke why fix it?

READING is Fundamental Lone Ranger. You really should try it some time before you leap in and post. TheSingrPlary isn't talking about having Karaoke Contests at a regular venue. He is talking about planning Karaoke Cruises. Cruises cost money. Your everyday Karaoke participant doesn't usually have money to go on cruises regularly, so therefore, we aren't even talking about losing Regulars because they got their feathers ruffled for not winning.



That being said, I do have some questions for TheSingrPlary.

You said your Girlfriend is a Cruise Planner. Does that mean she actually is setting up and organizing specific cruises, or does she just work for one of those major cruise companies (such as Princess, Norwegian, Carnival, etc...).

Is she some Independent Contractor who sets up entertainment for these cruise lines, or does she operate her own Cruise Line, and is trying to set up a specifically themed cruise just to host Karaoke Contests?

How are you making these plans? Are these Karaoke Cruises going to be just that... A cruise that is just offering Karaoke out on the open waters? Will it be for a 3 hour cruise, 4 hour cruise, 5 hour cruise? a Weekend Cruise? Will it be every Day, Week or Weekend? Or, will this just be you and your Girlfriend getting hired on one of those major Cruise Lines to run these shows?

If it is your own Cruises, what do you plan to charge the people to attend? Will there be food and beverages available (either a Price Fixe Dinner Menu or an Open Buffet)?

Cue the way the topic was posted " Contests??? I would like to solicit everyone for their ideas". In principal I think contests are counter productive to keeping a group together long term. True the cruise would be a short term situation and nobody generally would be seeing each other after the trip. Still you are on a boat with other contestants for the duration of the voyage and should at all costs avoid any negative feed back that might occur because of bruised egos. The Cruise Planner like the Activity Director needs to make the whole experience enjoyable, in order to have the passenger act a a sales rep when they get home and tell their friends what a good time they had. Since this is an activity on a Cruise Ship instead of cash prizes maybe it would be better to give a prize to all that participate. Another way to have the contest is to level the playing field and have kamikaze karaoke contest. Have singers compete and place random songs in a hat and sing whatever they draw out. There could be kamikaze shooters for a buck, since nobody has to drive home from a ship. That way the better singers would not have a clear advantage. Prizes instead of cash could also be awarded to the winners. It is a way to keep everyone happy and the Cruise Line would not have to shell out big bucks.

And from your first response to this, that appears to be where you STOPPED READING.
The NEXT STEP would be to read the OPENING POST, where TheSingrPlary discussed what he was looking for.

Now, as for the rest of what you just said in response to me, that ACTUALLY makes good sense. This time, you made it relate to the Cruise Activity.

BUT... I still would like to see what TheSingrPlary has to say in response to my questions. I brought up COST as a point of interest, but did not really ask about it. Not everyone can afford to go on a Cruise every day, week, weekend, or month. If this is to be something set up privately (like one of those 3 hour Dinner Cruises that are available in Manhattan or even some KJ renting out Captain Joe's Fishing Boat (out of Howard Beach) for a few hours), one would still need to know what it would cost to participate. Sure, you may still get your Ringers attending, but if it's something like $100 per person, you're not going to see many Regulars coming back on a regular basis.

I don't believe in contests. I've tried it a couple of times (at the venue's request) and will never do it again.

There are just too many negatives associated with contests, not to mention a lot of hurt feelings.

Why? One reason is that contests are rarely judged fairly. Sometimes the person or persons that you thought were a shoe-in to win, don't even place.

This causes a lot of bad feelings.

Contests sometimes alienates your regulars who feel they are not up to the level of the singers in the competition and turns them off from singing altogether. Not a very good move.

I have always made karaoke about "everyone". Everyone should be able to sing and have fun, regardless of what you may sound like. Karaoke is all about having fun. No one is a professional, if they were, they would have their own CD's and not be singing karaoke in a bar.

Contests cause insecurity, animosity, hurt feelings and I could go on and on.

There are just too many negatives why contests are a bad idea. I can go on and on as for the reasons why but I'll stop here.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I participated in a contest one time where a fight broke out during my song. I was singing "Piano Man" and playing the harmonica part while about 6-8 guys beat the crap out of each other right in front of me, including bumping me a few times. The karaoke guy kept me rolling (I personally would have shut it off and restarted after the fight if I were the KJ), and I went with it. I didn't miss a beat, even stepping over two guys as they wrestled on the floor at one point. I have won multiple contests with my version of that song, and I also nailed it that day despite the fight. There were at least two other singers that were heads above all of the rest as well.

Cops showed up, broke up the fight, cuffed two guys outside.

Do you know who won the karaoke contest? One of the guys outside in cuffs. He sang before the fight broke out and sounded like a complete joke, but the KJ pretty much hyped up the crowd during the "judging" by pointing out that the dude was right outside on the hood of the police car, and the audience ate it up.

Another contest I entered was even more of a joke. Great singers, great turnout, but when it came to announcing the winner, the bar gave it to one of the off duty bartenders, who was a horrible singer, but was pregnant with twins and needed the $$$. 30-40 or so extra people that were there THAT DAY pales in comparison to the long term business they lost by making a complete mockery of their own "contest." I personally went to that place pretty much every Thursday for almost 3 years, and have not been back since that "contest."

Extreme examples, but this is pretty much how it goes most of the time, in my experience.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Earl, you are out of line. Just because contests have been working out for you doesn't mean they are without consequence. Do not discount what others have said, including me, about the negative impact contests may bring.

The negatives certainly outweigh the positives regarding running a successful contest. Usually they are judged unfairly. Favoritism is often shown no matter how much the judges claim to be impartial. I've seen women win only because they looked "hot" and not because of their singing talent. The only happy singer is the winner of the contest.

In general, they are joke. I've seen them create a negative atmosphere among the regulars. I've seen someone come in just for the contest, win it, and then never be seen again.

Contests can cause insecurity, low self esteem, bad and/or hurt feelings.

So, look at the whole picture, Earl, before making judgment. Like I said, most KJ's including me, have found them to be more of a nuisance than anything else. And there are certainly more negatives than positives about contests.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I'm not going to explain again, but contest can and DO work if done properly. People LIKE to compete and WANT to compete. For those that do not like contests - simple answer - DON'T DO THEM! For those that do, good luck and have fun!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The standard good or bad contest debate doesn,t really apply here because it is a unique situation - a one-off. Just like a bad kj at the shore who survives because he gets a brand new crowd every week. If the OP advertises a Karaoke Contest Cruise, then everyone who participates knows what is happening . There are no disgruntled reulars or newbie drop-ins. There will be a new crowd with each cruise. There may be some repeaters, but unlike a standard venue they won,t be tbe bread and butter.

It's certainly worth a try.

That being said: At least attempt to give the perception of fair judging and rules, then hope for the best.

Note to any KJ working a salt water cruise: Be EXTREMELY careful of your equipment and clean thoroughly inside and out when you are done.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Apologies for the typos. My typing is bad enough, and now I osted using my tablet.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

To Alan and Topher: This is (as Joe C. put it) a unique situation. It is not about your typical Karaoke Contests down at Casey's Bar and Grill (fill in any Venue name you want). It's specifically about a cruise dedicated to having a Karaoke Contest (or at least to having it as an activity on this cruise (I'm waiting for TheSingrPlary to answer that question from my previous post)). All of the negative things that you have to say about contests don't apply here, because there probably won't be any Regulars. It probably will end up being something like going to Disney World or The Jersey Shore (at least during the Summer), where it is a Tourist Attraction, and they will have a crowd no matter what.

WWWWOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!! There are indeed more than 2 people on this forum!!!!

Was that a bit of humor?

I thank ALL of you for the posts. Now that I have some general feedback, I want to be more specific... and get more specific commentary GOOD, and BAD.

I have done some contests in my life. Some I know I should have won (but doesn't singer think that?). I avoid the "audience applause" style contest because I do not take in tow, all my relatives, and friends, and buy them some drinks to scream and clap the loudest...

I have won some contests, especially the type where some celebrity judges who know music, pitch, tone, were judging.

THAT SAID, we want to give people an incentive to go sing on a cruise. In the past, we did some music cruises. The following for my own Eagles Tribute came out in droves - over 120 people sailed with us. So then, we did a few more with other great tribute bands. They too were successful.

Everyone takes a vacation. Those who like cruises (or think they would like a cruise) can get the best price deal possible (my girlfriend works her cute little arse off at saving clients money, and they come back time after time). So someone who sings, and perhaps their wife or girlfriend, or another singer might get to go on an 8 day cruise in the Caribbean or from NY to Canada for as little as possible AND get the opportunity to sing, meet others, compete, and potentially win something.

The prize money for 1st through 4th place is dependent upon number of people. The final breakdown we arrived at was based upon 25, 50, 75, or 100 singers.

Potentially, the way we figure it:

Singers Total 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

25 $2,000 $1,000 $500 $340 $160
50 $4,000 $2,000 $1,000 $680 $320
75 $6,000 $3,000 $1,500 $1,020 $480
100 $8,000 $4,000 $2,000 $1,360 $640

125 $10,000 $5,000 $2,500 $1,700 $800
150 $12,000 $6,000 $3,000 $2,040 $960

The latter two might be a bit unrealistic just because of the sheer number of singers with an average of 5 minutes per song, and another 1 to 3 minutes on judge commentary. We threw it in because the band cruises had those numbers...

During competitions 1 through 4, if the group is large enough, we will arrange for open Karaoke in a nearby room or lounge so you can drop in and listen to the competition or just go sing (and not that cheesy cruise line variety either).

All aboard...

DAY 1 - board, and a special complementary champagne get together in lounge(s).

Open Karaoke NIGHT 1 with our cruise group, and depending upon how many people, perhaps in 1 to 3 different lounge/rooms. This is GOOD karaoke with quality sound and a very very large (and legal) song library.

Meet & greet on DAY 2 in afternoon. Registrations will already be done, yet anyone who came on the cruise with singer could still sign in to compete. Subject to whatever MAX we put on the number of singers. All singers in competition will be added to the drawings for surprise give aways (including a free cruise for two!)

Open karaoke NIGHT 2 with our cruise group in 1 to perhaps 3 different locations. Competition schedule distributed to all singers.

4 judges, a secret judge will settle ties…

(Total number of singers divided by 4)

Competition 1 - DAY 2 - XX contestants in Group 1 compete over 3-4 hours.
Winners 1st through 5th place advance to semi finals.

Competition 2 - DAY 3 - XX contestants in Group 2 compete over 3-4 hours.
Winners 1st through 5th place advance to semi finals.

Competition 3 - DAY 4 - XX contestants in Group 3 compete over 3-4 hours.
Winners 1st through 5th place advance to semi finals.

Competition 4 - DAY 5 - XX contestants in Group 4 compete over 3-4 hours.
Winners 1st through 5th place advance to semi finals.

Competition 5 - Day 6 - Semi finals consisting of winners from competitions 1 thru 4.
Winners are the top 6 and advance to finals

Competition Finals - Day 7 afternoon consisting of the top 6 singers.
(hoping to get the theatre, open to all shipmates to come watch)
Drawings for give aways will be done during finals
Winners are 1st through 4th place are announced – prizes to be awarded.

<><><><><><><><>

So far, I have outlined prizes, and competition/scheduling.

Next I will have a go at rules and judging - what matters and what does not...

HAVE AT IT FRIENDS - lemme know what you think so far?

This is a serious effort and we hope to put it together and get it launched in the next month or two, with first one either in Nov/Dec 2014, or Jan/Feb 2015.

And for those that asked, my girlfriend is not affiliated with any cruise lines, She is a CruisePlanner and travel agent, specializing in group travel, destination weddings and reunions, and all that stuff.

We have promotional budget and outlets, sponsors, and we are feverishly gathering information on running contests, liabilities, and all the stuff that goes with something like this.

My only questions are judging criteria and how the judges are chosen.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

perhaps he was just helping the guy out by providing bail money with the winning.

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-Chris