Karaoke Forums

Lone Ranger, you'd hate me if I were a karaoke operator, then. I would actively pursue gigs regardless of someone's status as a pirate or not if I thought 1) I could do a better job and 2) I thought the arrangement could be beneficial to both me and the bar.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

Smooth - Can easily prove my purchases because I have proactively contacted the karaoke companies that seem to care and I have jumped through their hoops. I have also treated my discs as inventory for my business and i have catalogued them and can pull any disc in seconds for anyone that asks.

Lone - I don't need a "right" to go "undermine" any operator, legal or illegal. I have set my core values such that I leave legal operators alone. To date I have not targeted any illegal hosts but I am not excluding that option in the future. I have no problem targeting them at all because they are thieves and they have already done their fair share of work undermining karaoke in general. They have had their run of operating illegally so if I push them out because I am legal AND I offer a better selection AND I have better sound AND a lot of things. But mostly because they are thieves and I am not.

You can attempt all you want to make me feel bad for having this attitude or taking this action, but there is absolutely nothing that justifies me teking ZERO action at all.

-Chris

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-Chris

I don't like people like that. I wouldn't do that. Maybe if the guy/gal was a known pirate. But I would NEVER go after a legal gig. Why? We all have to eat. You stay at your place, I'll stay at mine, and all will be well.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

"My point is Smooth what authority gives any of these large scale karaoke operations to question any host, or to try and undermine their business?"

It's called the free enterprise system. No one is guaranteed an endless contract and that someone else can't take it. Remember the ongoing Cola Wars (it will never be over) or fast food wars or the Wal-Mart/Target? and other major store wars. They are at war for customers and do you think they care about what the other company thinks. Do you think Pepsi isn't trying to get Coca-Colas contracts like McDonald's and vice versa? Or the auto makers or any other company in any other industry. You should understand that since that is what your country is based on.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

If you are playing the free enterprise card tim, then no gig is safe from competition whether it is legal or illegal. That any host can invade another hosts territory and all is fair in war. My country historically also was run for a time by robber baron large trusts that at one time were broken up. Now once again large international corporations are attempting again to subvert democracy and the will of the people.

There will always be large corporations that feel they can flout the laws of a country and set themselves above the law. Eventually things have a way of leveling out. Before hosts jump on the band wagon of no rules or limits they should realize they themselves could be subject to the same treatment from other business rivals. The manus are starting to feel the wrath of the publishers, how far that wrath radiates out remains to be seen.

Chris I can't make you feel anyway that is all up to you. After all this attitude is yours and only you can decide if you want to change or adjust it. You are now a businessman who has chosen to have entertainment be your sole source of income. Most small business's fail in the first 10 years. This is just a fact. You can rationalize all you want that you have the right to run pirates out of the karaoke business and take over their gigs. Only you have to deal with how that effects how you feel about yourself and your actions. The die is cast you have to try everything and anything to make your business work, don't be surprised if you end up doing things you thought you would never do. In any type of survival situation the limits of a persons core beliefs are always challenged. How we answer the challenges determines the kind of person we are.

What's next, Chris? Will you go out and purchase a radar gun and start taking photos of your neighbors speeding on your local roads and mail the evidence to the local police? We all know the type. Don't forget your pocket protector.

Do you also drive 55 in the left lane of a highway and block all of the people who would like to pass you?

Well this has taken an interesting turn. How would any business ever get customers if they don't take them from somebody else? Do you not know there are vendors calling on bars and restaurants every day to try and get the business from their competitor? What kind of insulated world do some of you folks live in?

The alcohol business, the soft drink business, and advertising business are all very competitive. You can't make a living if you can't take business from your competitors. If you were a liquor rep would you just sit around your house waiting for a new bar to open so you didn't have to take business from a competitor? You'll be sitting there permanently with no job because you'll get fired.

Karaoke or trivia gigs don't get a special exemption, and it's not unethical to solicit existing shows. Maybe this is why some of you have two frickin' shows a week and are barely surviving financially.

I currently have no shows, and I'm surviving financially very well Rick. At least you are honest enough to admit the secret to success in business is being willing to do what it takes to succeed. Personally I never had to encroach on another hosts gig, then of course in the past there was plenty of work to go around and no one was concerned about piracy. Piracy only came to the forefront when the economy tanked, and jobs were scarce. When the manus could no longer make their profits and decided to use suits to drive sales.

You have come to grips with the fact in order to survive you have to be willing solicit existing shows legal or illegal. You have been business awhile, I think Chris will adjust his attitude after a while and come to the same conclusion you have. In that lays the fact that large scale contractors will continue to grow and increase market share at the expense of the single rig operator.

Well either there is professional courtesy or there is the law of the jungle.

I've never approached another operator's gig. If things are going to go to the law of the jungle than I don't see how anyone can complain when someone comes along and competes on price instead of quality. And then when that happens, you're going to see a lot of crap karaoke at rates that make it hard for an honest operator to stay in business and maybe even permanently sour the respective bar owner's taste for karaoke.

I can see an operator in a small market being forced to approach another host's gig to stay in business, but in a big city with lots of bars? Why do it?

There is a right way and wrong way to approach a bar that is currently someone else s gig. You arrange to meet with them during the day and you don't scout or undermine during their shows. The same goes for poaching singers. I always hated when someone came in and tried to poach my singers.

How do you know the bar isn't already looking for a change? You walk in, tell them who you are and why you are there, and if they want to listen they will. If they don't then they are happy with their current arrangement so no harm no foul.

That's correct Mr. Boo and that's what I do. There is nothing like the feeling of NOT stopping by to call on someone, then see that the existing guy has been replaced, and then find out they were sick of the guy they had (for several reasons) and somebody else got the gig because I didn't bother talk to them because they had an existing show.

Don't assume that a bar owner is satisfied with their current show just because they haven't done anything about it yet. Your sales call might be the reason they were waiting on to make a change, and it doesn't have to always be about price, it rarely is, I've found.

You only have a few ways to be unique in your market: Oldest (longest in the business), Cheapest, Biggest Library, Better Equipment, Biggest Following, Best Show (subjective). So how does a KJ get more shows if he (she) is not one of these?

Know what my best sales call on a competitor venue is? "So your trivia is working well for you? That's great, how about adding a second night and using my company? We have a very different type of trivia (and we do) and give your customers a choice of versions"

I don't think that is practical at all so I don't.

But if I see someone break into my neighbor's house and attempt to steal all their homemade karaoke discs, I will call the police (but not until they have made off with all of the Springsteen versions).

-Chris

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-Chris

When the time comes that I run out of venues coming to me and there are no more pirates to run off, I will decide if I want/need to solicit gigs from legitimate KJ's.

However, as you were so keen to point out earlier, I have a lot of headroom with 95% of the gigs available to me before I ever have to go head to head against a legitimate operator.

As Rick pointed out, business is business and Pepsi and Coke are constantly trying to pick up market share by trying to convince people to swicth brands. I have no problem do that myself and I will.....when the time comes.

-Chris

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-Chris

I just hope Chris you are better at telling the good guys from the bad guys than the manus have been. No matter how you slice it if the future of karaoke is pure capitalism then there will be winners and losers, that is the way the system works. Uncontrolled capitalism is just as bad as is any system without controls.

The long and the short of it is that I am already successful and so are a bunch of single rig hosts in my area. This hold true across much of the US.

There is no indication that single rig operators have anything to fear from multi-riggers outside of the standard piracy concerns. The small operators have been around for 2+ decades and will likely be around another decade at least.

But.......ALWAYS have a Plan B. I am working on my Plan B already and have even started laying the groundwork for Plan C should I ever need it.

-Chris

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-Chris

Maybe no fear Chris but at least be concerned. I wish you could tell Dennis he has nothing to worry abut he is still looking for a gig after to losing two in a row to the large scale contractor.

Lone, from what I know of Chris, he takes a similar approach to his business as I do, in other words, he runs it like a business. Being bigger might just be a function of being better. There is no way I could have grown my business without making good decisions, hiring good hosts to work for me, deciding to buy new equipment instead of limping along with used or inferior stuff, and putting every effort into marketing ourselves as a professional entertainment company.

I see my competitor's hosts drinking to the point of drunk, dressed like they're going to the garbage dump and looking like they can't wait to be through and get the heck out of there. These are opportunities for me and I take advantage of them. Although I am a corporation, we have 3 employees, myself, my wife and my son, so we're a family business. We've gone from nothing to become the largest entertainment company for bars and restaurants in our 4-county market in less than 3 years, and we've just entered South Carolina to try and recreate what we've done in North Carolina.

So Chris has made the decision to grow an entertainment company and it appears to be a great decision and I'm sure he'll continue to grow. Replacing single operators is not specifically something I set out to do, in many cases they put themselves out of business with their own incompetence.

Playing devil's advocate here... Why is it wrong to poach singers if it isn't wrong to poach gigs? I don't see the distinction. How do you know the singer wasn't looking for a better show than yours to sing at?

So are there any state wide or national karaoke hosting companies or is it mostly multiriggers in a metropolitan and surrounding area, say 50-100 miles?

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You can be strange but not a stranger