Karaoke Forums

Imagine a huge truck driving down the road and Sound Choice discs are just falling off the back of the truck as it goes by. The driver doesn't notice the problem and continues on his merry way. Someone picks up all of the discs that have fallen off the truck and becomes a KJ. He has all original Sound Choice discs but he hasn't paid for any of them. He converts all of his Sound Choice tracks to his computer hard drive and he passes a Sound Choice audit with flying colors.

How is he any different than the guy who just bought a pre-loaded hard drive? or the guy who downloaded all of his tracks for free? The guy with the discs is assumed to be legitimate because his unpaid for music is on a disc and not a hard drive.

I think the Karaoke Kandy Store case will be the final nail in the Sound Choice coffin. At thei point they must realize that they would just be throwing good money after bad....but we shall see. What ever happened to all of that talk about Trade Dress anyway?

According to your logic, I should be able to reproduce Action Comics Issue #1 (Superman) and sell it to a collector for a couple million dollars. It's the same thing....right?

-Chris

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-Chris

Where did Bruce say anything in his scenario about the person copying the discs and then selling those copies?

But, according to your logic of Bruce's logic, if you saw that issue of Action Comics #1 (Superman) fall off the truck, and you grabbed it and ran off with it, you could copy it and then sell it to some Collector at the going Collector's price....

Did I get that right?

I don't think Mr. Harrington ever responded to my question about who SC's trial attorney was during the KKS trial. My information, as well as the case docket, suggests it was none other that Jimbo himself. Hmmm. Can't blame Boris for that one.

He also never responded to my questions about just how Slep-tone going forward will convince lawyers to represent SC on a contingency basis given SC's goose egg verdict by judge and jury (well actually they lost AND got stuck with costs) at the KKS trial, the lillipution verdict of the Florida trial which was for a whopping $9K at full retail, not incremental profit as the law allows, and Judge Wright's order where he found Slep-tone to be a vexatious troll and that acted in bad faith for which they had to pay attorneys' fees of $18K. Which contingency lawyers would be willing to file yet more cases on behalf of SC after that track record? And will they end up in a fee/expense dispute thereafter with Harrington waiting in the wings to file suit for misappropriation (like SC did to its investigator APS) or file a complaint with the state bar and accuse them publicly of theft? Hmmm.

I have already confirmed that I served as the lead attorney at trial, Craigbo.



By pointing to the other verdict in Florida, the one where we tried the case against a defendant who multi-rigged with a single set of discs and won an injunction and a judgment of $26,000 and costs based upon infringement using two sets of duplicates of 704 discs ($18.47/disc); or by pointing to the hundreds of defendants who have settled with us on the basis of their actual infringement.

You like to focus on the handful of times things haven't gone as well as we would have liked, because you have an agenda to try to destroy our credibility. I assume you think it will help your client(s). The truth is that we've brought more new attorneys online after Judge Wright's order than we brought on in the four years before it, with several more ready to open up new cases in new jurisdictions in the coming months. There are lots of attorneys who recognize the value of this work because they've seen the actual results, instead of the extremely limited picture you'd like to portray. Of course, not everyone can luck into a judge with an agenda like you did.

They are hoping that there are still plenty of people out there who don't follow these cases where Sound Choice loses because they can't prove both parts of the infringement requirements.(Low hanging fruit) These people still believe that they can end up losing a lot of money if they are found guilty so they panic and settle. Once the word gets out that they will not only be found NOT GUILTY but they will also have their attorney's fees paid by Sound Choice; more of these people will have the nerve to fight these cases without the fear of it costing them a small fortune. Ding Dong The Witch is dead, which old witch ? The sound choice witch! Witch Hunt anyway.

If I were lucky enough to find that comic book just sitting there on the sidewalk, all nice and pristine, and wrapped in plastic; I would not need to make any copies. Finders Keepers losers weepers. I'd sell that bad boy to the highest bidder ASAP. I don't make copies of any of my karaoke tracks to sell. I change them to make them easier for me to sing along to them. I am basically making them handicap accessible for me. My vision is very poor and I change the colors and fonts so they are easier for me to read. Try to find a judge that's gonna find me guilty for doing that, my friend.

Could you just imagine the wonderful press that Sound Choice would get for that law suit? Your honor. We want this visually impaired karaoke customer to pay us damages for editing the very products that he already bought and paid for.

Judge: But none of these tracks display your logo and none of these tracks are being sold. What are your damages?

SC: But he removed our TRADE DRESS from the tracks, your honor.

Defense Attorney: Sound Choice doesn't want people to display their logo, Your Honor. My client was trying to appease them and now they complain that he is not giving them what amounts to free advertising.

Judge: You can't have it both ways. Case dismissed! NEXT CASE!!!

All legal costs to be paid by the Plaintiff. Have a good day counselors.

"Handful of cases?" OK Jimbo, you make it sound like the cases I have cited are merely incidental or highly isolated losses that are vastly outweighed by the huge number of SC trial victories. OK, I'll bite. Of the maybe thousands by now of KJs and venues SC has sued, please set forth precisely which victories at trial SC has enjoyed thus far, and the verdict amounts, and no, not default judgments where there was no opposition, but actual trial victories with opposition at before a jury, a judge or both.

Clearly, you still do not deny that even the puny Florida verdict was excessive. In fact, is it not true that even a pro se beat you in the Florida case?

As for those cases that are new, did you tell those lawyers about SC's poor results at trial and the findings by Judge Wright that Slep-tone is a vexatious troll, bad faith discovery tactics and the sanctions orders against SC in so many cases? And then tell us why defendants should settle or be intimidated and shake in their boots to avoid such results? Or instead follow what Fan4life suggests and make SC put on its case of proof - which in at least KKS' case SC failed miserably. I note that you also did not deny being on that trial team. I think the point is that many even here are getting tired of the hot air pushing out of North Carolina.

Are you kidding?
Lawyers are far more ubiquitous than KJs.
It will always be easy to find a lawyer who is willing to sloppily keep a civil action afloat in the hope of a settlement before the case gets dismissed for failure to prosecute.
I.P. trolling lawyers are to the legal profession as pirate KJs are to the karaoke industry - everyday a new one is born and eventually there will be a bunch of them that are willing to sue in exchange for free beer.

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KNOW THYSELF

It seems like Plan B is trying to find Naive Lawyers that are willing to chase down whatever Naive KJs that are left because Jim knows that it isn't worth HIS PRECIOUS TIME any longer because the losses are out weighing the gains now. The easy pickings have already been picked clean and now when the real work has to be done; The Emperor has no clothes. These new Lawyers are buying into the same sad story that the early KJ settlers bought into. They think that there is an actual case to be won. It will become like the poor folks who get suckered into working for AMWAY. The people at the top of the PYRAMID will make a little bit of money off of everyone beneath them and in the end Bernie Madoff goes to jail. Now that will be a funny day when another former millionaire goes to the iron bar hotel. Judges love sending Trolls to jail. Trolls don't do well in jail. They come out as bitches.

What you are describing is trademark infringement Chris. Creating confusion in the market place by making a copy of an original product and trying to sell it as an original, which would be difficult to do to a experienced collector or dealer in comic books. The average host is not guilty of trademark infringement unless they are copying the product, and I don't mean burning a rough disc, but trying to make and exact duplicate of the product. Then they would have to take the duplicate and try to sell it as original SC product. That is the only situation where trademark infringement could attach. I guess if a host made the disclaimer before each show that what the patrons were seeing was not original SC product but a copy of that product transferred to a PC, that might get them off the legal hook. They would not then be creating confusion in the market place, even though they are not physically selling anything in the first place.

Yes Jimbo something to really be proud of you brow beat hundreds of hosts, who didn't know legally your case was on shaky ground into settling out of court, when actually the didn't owe you a dime. It's no wonder that these settlements are kept secret, if the truth were known it would probably turn all hosts stomachs. Of the over 1,000 hosts and venues you have succeeded in scamming, most settled out of court didn't they? No one has to try and destroy your credibility, SC has done that itself. Many hosts have not liked the way the legal process has been handled to date. If it comes out later that all of this was started without you having firm legal grounds to begin with, where do you think your precious credibility will be then? In California more hosts just walked and didn't pay you anything, the one's that settled must feel real foolish and mad right now, I know I would. It is what they used to call playing someone for a sucker. You are really having more lawyers come on, yes I guess time is of the essence not everyone is on these forums, and it will take time for the word to get out. I just hope you oversee these new lawyers better than you oversaw APS. I have to admit you guys are real gamblers losing and you keep pouring resources in. What happens to all this new effort if SC is put out of business like CB by CAVS or EMI?

P.S. Really the judge has an agenda now? Seems like everyone has an agenda according to you Jimbo, oh course you and Kurt are the only people in the world that don't have an agenda of their own.

I find it very hard to believe that both of the above statements can be true.

But I also don't think you have anything to fear because home pirates aren't part of the Sound Choice game plan.

-Chris

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-Chris

I dont have to prove anything to you, or anyone else. If the Karaoke Kandy Store isn't guilty for selling pre loaded hard drives, how can I be guilty for owning one of them? or making back-ups of them? or editing them? Happy Hunting! It is no longer sitting DUCK THEASON. It is now WUNNING WABBIT SEASON. Kurt is now just like Elmer Fudd. BeFUDDled.

It's a matter of personal ethics. Apparently you lack them. Whether a court of law finds you guilty doesn't make piracy anything other than theft.

I never understood the concept of "OH THIS THING COSTS TOO MUCH LET ME JUST TAKE IT FOR FREE." It's a weird sense of entitlement, thinking "I like this. I want this. I take this! Yay!" I purchase my DVDs and MP3s, and stream only though services like Netflix. If there's something I want, but don't want to pay for? I wait until I'm willing or able to pay for it.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

I was never going to pay full price for all of Sound Choice's filler music and duplicate songs on multiple discs: so they haven't lost any money on me because they had already gotten more than they should have. Too many times I had to buy 15 songs for the ONE song that I really wanted. They created the atmosphere that caused people to feel that it was okay to get their music at a discounted price from a third party. According to Sound Choice's own estimates; ninety percent of the KJs out there are not 100% legitimate. It would seem that the only people that are trying to be 100% legitimate are the ones that got into the karaoke business very early on and had no choice in the matter. They were so heavily invested in original CDG discs that it didn't make sense to them to cut corners. Those people would rarther sit on the side lines and whine about their competiton having an edge over them than join the party and compete on a level playing field. "If you can't Beat 'em, Join 'em". You all expected Sound Choice to rescue you and thge only thing that Sound Choice cared about was getting a few thousand dollars from each of your competitors.

Someone who bought all of their Sound Choice discs at retail prices is still at the same disadvantage that they were always under. They paid tens of thousands of dollars for 80% filler music while the GEM buyers paid a few thousand dollars for only the cream of the crop. Now Sound Choice is losing landmark cases on a regular basis and even the people who were basically strong armed into buying the GEM Series are re-thinking their decisions to pay their protection money to stay in business. Oh well! You can't win them all, but I bet those GEM buyers are already back to using their old pre loaded hard drives and back to multi-rigging without fear of consequences.

As far as my ethics are concerned; I'm a catholic and I just confess my sins to the man with the funny collar and all is forgiven. What a religion!

You know what I never understood? Why drug companies charge an arm and a leg for drugs in America and then give the same drugs away to third world countries. Those sick people should have to pay like everyone else, No? Why do they feel that they are entited to free medicine that they can't afford. Why do I have to subsdize their health cacre?

Sound Choice product is too expensive for many people so they just declare themselves a third world KJ and get it for free. How's that for an analogy?

You are correct - you don't have to prove anything to me. You have already proven enough with your own comments. I commend you on being so open about being a pirate. At least you are honest about being dishonest.

-Chris

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-Chris

Yeah, in some weird way, I actually kind of respect that.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

Jimbo, so that fat judgment for $26,000 was far less than SC asserted for counterfeiting. Wow, that is about $8K for the contingency lawyer's portion after trial, assuming it is collectible and there is no appeal. First, how can one counterfeit something it didn't sell? Second, how can one counterfeit where the act alleged was for copying to a hard drive, neither a service nor a product covered by the class of goods of marks SC alleged were infringed? Third, you have never disputed that an award of full retail was excessive since the statute allows for "lost profits" and where Kurt testified at deposition, did he not, that lost profit per disc was merely $6-$7. So where is the grand string of SC successes at trial, let alone the chest pounder you tout above that are not subject to drastic reductions (they call it remittitur ) or being overturned on appeal? Let's be real. Being forced to trial has been disastrous for SC. If the cases were legitimate, it would make economic sense that it is settlements you're after. Except that Judge Wright nailed it, he found Slep-tone to be a vexatious troll. "The Court is convinced that this was nothing more than a shakedown suit." It seems that Slep-tone appeals most adverse rulings, but did not appeal this one. It must have agreed.