Karaoke Forums

Didn't I just say that I media-shifted in reverse?

You and I use the 2 terms quite differently. You use the term OMD to mean Only Manufacturer Disc, where you define that to be the type of product you purchase and use. I use the term ODB to mean Only Disc Based which refers to the type of show I run. I am only using discs (as versus a PC based host who is using a different format to play his/her song tracks). In contrast to the PC host, the few downloaded tracks that I have purchased from DTE/KC were not made available in a disc format, so if I wanted those tracks, I had no choice but to shift them to disc. Not only that, but I did receive an acknowledgement and permission from DTE/KC to do just that as long as I remained in a 1:1 ratio for those tracks. Other download sites that I have dealt with (SBI to be specific) have offered their product in both formats (CDG or Download (MP3+G and MP4+G)). For me, it wasn't a matter of convenience to media-shift my purchases from DTE/KC. It was a necessity. The PC host had a choice to shift when he/she purchased all of their other song tracks on original discs (let's not even bring up the pirates for this one).

I'm not trying to argue the point that I have some media-shifted tracks in my collection... just explaining it, and technically, I am operating a DB show (there, I'll reword it to DB for Disc Based). And, as I said in my previous post, these Manufacturers that are suing, are not looking for that at a DB show. They're not even looking for DB shows. They are specifically looking for a PC based show, and what tracks they are playing. As I stated before, there aren't that many DB shows out there, so it is highly unlikely that they (PRLLC) would be looking to bust someone like me for playing one of Taylor Swift's new songs from her "Red" album (a DTE/KC version) because they saw me play it from a disc (when it was only issued as a download by DTE/KC).

Now, we do have differing opinions on what you have defined an OMD song track to be as compared to purchasing a download from one of the other sites that sells the same song tracks (let's use the purchase of CB's version of "Margaritaville" in a downloaded format directly from CB (now under DTE or Karaoke Cloud) as versus the same CB song track/version of "Margaritaville" purchased from Tricerasoft or Select-a-Track's site for that comparison). We really don't need to rehash this because we just don't seem to agree with each other on our respective points of view about that.

If you are using the media in a format that you didn't buy....why not??? No one has a legal right for commercial use to just take anything and copy it willy nilly for their own preferences. We just assume that it should be our right, but it really isn't.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Says SC and CB only. no one else in the entire music industry has any issue with media shifting to CDR or HDD.
universal music group, the worlds largest publisher does not require or offer audits to media shift for DJ's.
Sony Music Group, second largest publisher does not require or offer audits to media shift for DJ's.
Warner Music Group, third largest publisher does not require or offer audits to media shift for DJ's.
not one DJ has been sued or harrassed for media shifting by the music industry players, no KJ has been sued or harrassed by the music industry players except one out of business company and one almost out of business company.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I don't see a problem with that as long as you own the material.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

The above mentioned publishers are still making music and have agencies that collect money for the public performance of their copyrighted material. In the case of SC and CB their only sources of revenues currently is their legal processes, and the licensing or subscriptions they manage to obtain due to the threat these legal processes generate. Like Kurt said "suits drive sales". In the case of CB it is not clear how DTE/Cloud subscriptions help their bottom line, and allows them not to sue verified vetted hosts. There has to be some type of monetary incentive for their behavior. They are hiding behind the company silence code, I think anyone would have to conclude the relationship between PR/WWD/CB and DTE is very close. The importance of both SC and CB grows less everyday as they become more dated, and no new product is available.

The need to get audited by PRLLC for DTE is absolutely ridiculous!! You can only buy DTE products from one site. Don't they keep records of who has bought their songs?? I could see needing to get CB stuff audited because they are out of business, but not DTE. If they aren't keeping track of who has their songs and what songs those people have, they are not a very organized business. I have bought five songs from the Cloud, only two of them have been DTE. One would think they know exactly what songs I have.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Haven't you heard Smooth they are not required to give out any information as companies because they are superior to hosts. Hosts on the other hand have to meet every one of their requirements in order to be able to ply their trade. If they tell you to wear your underwear on the outside of your clothes when playing their music in public you would probably have to do that, if you use their product.

I think we need look at it from DTE's perspective. They have people asking over and over about CB "certifications" and wanting a way to get up to day. Remember, there is a segment that WANTS to get audited. I can't really understand that either, but they do. So, DTE is offering a voluntary audit to those people.

PR, on the other hand in my opinion, NEEDS to be able to show they can actually do some sort of investigation prior to suits. It seems they started in on a sue first and ask questions later plan, but what is really gonna piss judges off is they did not have any way at all to show they ever tried to check. At least SC has some sort of out with whatever their "audit" is. PR didn't even have that.

Yes Mr. Boo PR/WWD really did put the cart before the horse. They should have had an auditing system in place before they renewed their legal process crusade. They demonstrated their lack of respect for hosts, even the certified hosts that have supported them through thick and thin. These certified hosts should have been placed at the head of the line, rather than these late comer vetted verified ones. One thing they could learn from a host is how to do a proper rotation. The reason for their haste indicates to me they are cash strapped and wanted to plunge into this legal process goldmine they think is out here. Just like gold it's a lot of work before you hit pay dirt.

Personally I don't either, but the law states otherwise.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Could you please tell me the law that says that and where I can find it in any law books?

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Read up on copyright law - 'fair use' only applies to personal use only, not commercial. I am not going to dig again, it's been pointed out here, there and everywhere for years.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

According to copyright law, we aren't even supposed to use DISCS in public. Says so right on the disc. Karaoke is illegal, period, and we should all shut down our operations, RIGHT NOW!!!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Had a great talk with Gretchen today;
Join the monthly Cloud for 2 years--they will list you
Do an audit for 175.00 and be listed as compliant
I dont like paying but need to be listed
We cant complain about thieves if we cant prove we're not.
I have not run into a single pirate that has not said hes legit.

The disc states 'unauthorized public performance prohibited' - once AGAIN, the bars pay the PRO (Performing Rights Organization - ie ASCAP/BMI/SESAC) fees (or they are supposed to) which turns an unauthorized public performance - into an authorized public performance. This too has been pointed out for years. If the bars do not pay, you are correct, their karaoke is illegal - but then so would just about any other form of entertainment they supplied that required the playback of music or video.

And if you want to nitpik about what it says on a disc, it also clearly states 'unauthorized coying prohibited'.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Gretchen, what about those that are running the KJMedia Pro with Compuhost? would they be considered subscribed to the cloud since it is the Cloud's library that KJ Media Pro uses. The majority of my CB tracks came off of the media pro when CB was still in business as is the majority of my Digitrax songs.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Well, in my case that would be a little ridiculous. I have 15 CB songs, on one disc and 2 DTE songs. I am NOT going to pay $10 a song for an audit. Just not worth it to me. That is more ludicrous than SC's $150 audit for 38 discs.



HEY Piracy Recovery, if you want to come after me for my 17 songs, that I purchased legitimately HAVE AT IT!!!!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

They will.

CB IS WWD, they make money right now by licensing the old CB Tracks to DTE. Norbert still owns the music through WWD (the company was started just before the CB collapse and CB sold the library to them) so he makes money that way and in the lawsuit it stated that WWD will begin releasing music under the CB trademark.
also, as far as connections.....
Stanley Marcom, another managing memeber of WWD like Norbert is, is also the CFO of DTE
gary douglass is in at least 50 companies and frank scalice has money management and holding companies so they seem to be silent money partners.
but there you go, there is your connection.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The answer is simple Smooth either buy more of their product to make it more cost effective to pay for yearly audits, or just boycott the manus who push all these burdensome rules of theirs.