Karaoke Forums

It goes beyond using it as it is intended to using only what you own as intended.



Since no one here has been through the PR process, no ones knows if there is a fee at all. I suspect there will be for the disc audit portion. But I agree that checking records at DigiTrax vs what I have on my drive should be a simply no brainer and not cost me a penny. Especially if KJ's organize their music well.

I don't believe that charging for an audit is a revenue stream. I know how much my time is worth. In the end game, they aren't making money back as much as recouping for costs.

According to the PR, LLC site -

"Just fill out the short form below, and a representative will contact you within one business day."

I suppose I could nail them on a technicality since my business day is today, but I will give them until close of business on Monday to get back to me. If I remember correctly, after providing my contact info, they over-commit with a "we usually get a hold of you faster" type phrase. Hopefully they will get back to me on Monday and I can provide more information at that time.

-Chris

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-Chris

How nice Chris you send them all of your information and they will get back to you. Do you really know who they are? They could be the investigation arm of PR/WWD trying to compile a list, under the guise of trying to help the poor hosts out. That would save a lot of leg work since they would have a list to work from, supplied by nervous hosts. Why would you send any information to an organization that is shrouded in secrecy themselves? Before I would even consider sending them any information, they should make plain what their intentions are first. For instance are they going to resume auditing? Until they have some representatives come on here and explain what the rules are going to be, it would be a little over anxious to declare you want to play their game, what ever it is.

I decided to make sure Piracy Recovery, LLC has my information, so I sent another request. In the process I spent some time reading and really consuming their site. Some interesting tidbits -

"Copyright law is complex, and only specialized lawyers have the time and money to become experts on it. There are a lot of interests involved: those of the songwriters, the publishers, the karaoke label, the distribution service, the KJ and the venue owner. Sorting them out is hard enough for the experts. That's why we invented a bulletproof solution to help you get and stay legal."


This leads me to believe their "bulletproof" solution protects all parties from the any action by the songwriters and publishers since they are mentioned. It will be interesting to hear how their "solution" differs from what Sound Choice offers.

Click the button below for a list of each KJ, company and venue who has applied for and passed our criteria for demonstrating the legality of their libraries for the catalogs we administer.

Updated Weekly

This isn't a valuable use of my time, but I am interested in how much traction PR, LLC gets and how quickly (or slowly) they move. I captured the current "Vetted List" and will check weekly to see how it changes.

Stop looking over your shoulder, wondering if your next patron is an investigator for the copyright cops. Our partners have solutions that will get and keep your karaoke shows legal, with a minimum of hassle. Just click the button to find out more.

Again...assuming I have done something wrong. I have never looked over my shoulder. When I see a new face I just try to get them on stage.

After you click on their link to "Ask Us" -

Help me get legal, please!

Want to have a completely legal karaoke library, with no worries and no hassles? We can help you find a solution that fits your needs and your budget, and lets you sleep nights.

Shouldn't read "I would like to verify I am legal by your standards"? They make the person filling out the form feel illegal just by clicking a button.

"solution that fits your needs and budget" - Be prepared for a sales pitch with an underlying tone of "if you want to be legal, here are some of your options...."

KaraokeCloud sells the following disc packs -

DK - 341 tracks - $500
Stage Stars - 338 tracks - $500
SBI - a broad variety of packages ranging from $700 - $3800
Sunfly - a broad variety of packages ranging from $700 - $2000

Too much to type for the Digitrax options so here is a screen shot -





After submitting your information, the following is displayed -

Your call for help will be answered.

Thanks for filling out the form. We keep someone on staff specifically to respond to these requests, and you should hear from them in no less than one business day, usually sooner. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Call for help? Really? I am not drowning. I am not stuck on the side of a cliff. I just want to be informed because there is this organization that is suing karaoke hosts and until now hasn't advertised any means of letting karaoke hosts be pro-active about complying with said organization's policies.

Yes, I need help finding a solution that will make certain my karaoke show is operating within the boundaries of copyright law. Please contact me so that we can discuss solutions that fit my needs and my budget.

Well....not really. What I really want to know is how to confirm that my existing library is "legal" by your standards and this is the only contact information I have ever found for your company. "Please contact me so I can ask questions and make an informed decision" is what I would have liked to have seen.

-Chris

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-Chris

VERY interesting....I downloaded the spreadsheet from the PR, LLC site. This line caught my eye -

List of KJs and Venues with verified and active legal subscriptions

Lawsuits (or the threat there of) drive sales.....

-Chris

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-Chris

Simple if you want to rest at night get your verified subscriptions and there will be no problems. If you subscribe then you won't have to worry about an audit, right? There will be no need to audit since all host will be required to subscribe even if they can verify they are 1:1 compliant. So we have switched the term certify to verify to increase potential sales, everyone must subscribe? That explains Chris why you and Athena and other certified hosts weren't on the list you are certified not verified, plain as the nose on your face. If you want to be vetted you have to subscribe. For multi-riggers that could get very expensive. Now I see what you mean that they can change the rules at anytime and the host has little recourse. This data base they are collecting is also going to be the list of potential sales, how much you want to bet Chris when you talk to them on Monday, they are gong to want to sell you multiple subscriptions?

This list is exactly what is says it is - People with active subscriptions. I have spoken to two of the hosts on the list at length today.

In both case they multi-rig. they have a primary rig that is computerized but the have the discs for them. There was no audit of those systems. Their seconds rigs each had the $99 month subscription. Interestingly though, neither KJ knew about Piracy Recovery, LLC. Neither knew their names were on a "vetted" list. Both asked me what "vetted" meant. I referred them to the PR, LLC site.

-Chris

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-Chris

but you are illegal, you do not have written permission from PRLLC to have your CB tracks on a hard drive (they ownb it now so the expired CB cert is useless) and you do not have written permission from them to use your purchased DTE tracks in business (nowhere does it say on the site that you can), so you and I are apparently illegal.
following the same train of thought from past legal arguments from some companies.
i will be waiting to hear your response and what Gretchen has to say about DTE content.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

One reason I have only purchased a handful of DTE tracks is because they have not given any process for verifying my library or any other certification.

My main Chartbuster content comes from the CB12000+ drives. It was distributed for use exactly as I am using it so don't worry about them. But I do have 2000+ CB discs that I would like to use in rigs someday. Those I want "vetted".

-Chris

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-Chris

I think we need to get away from any previous concepts we might have about certification and 1:1 compliance. It seems to me that it is not a question of certification as it has been laid out in the past. There seems to be a break with any agreements formerly held since they have all long ago expired both for the discs shifted to the hard drives, and maybe to the 12,000 track drives as well. That is why there were such fire sales on those drives, they were only approved for one year. That is why PR/WWD has laid low until now, waiting until all of these certifications had expired, with no intention of auditing or renewing them. It has been stated many times the manus can remove permission as well as grant it. Maybe they have decided to remove permission in order to compel all hosts to subscribe to Cloud. If the vetted lists represents all of the total Cloud subscribers to date 98 isn't going to cut it as far as profitability for the service provider. This way instead of getting just the pirates to subscribe they will also compel all of the legal hosts that want to use their product to subscribe as well.

So, did anyone else catch all this talk about fitting your needs and budget? I wonder what that budget is? How much are you going to be willing to spend/pay out to PPRLLC so that you don't get hassled by them?

Up above is the list of product for sale by DTE cue. That is of course if DTE and PR/WWD are working hand in hand?

Well, interesting that I've been in the entertainment business in Raleigh for 7 years and I've never heard of the one guy I can identify from my area. He doesn't have any public karaoke shows that I can determine, yet I know at least 6 KJs in my area that were certified by SC & CB and you'd think they would be the first to be contacted and vetted. This is some of the goofiest stuff I could ever imagine going on these days.

yes i did, this whole thing stinks to high heaven.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

This makes sense if you accept the idea that verification not certification is now the new coin of the realm. To be vetted one must be a verified subscriber. That is why there has been no new word about resuming auditing, since there would be no need to if certification no longer applies. If you remember Summit I it was stated that if Cloud failed the manus would face implosion in 2013. Well it's 2013 if the vetted list of verified subscribers is all that have signed on to Cloud, it is failing by any standards. This site is more of a sign of desperation than anything else. They are hoping the nervous hosts will turn themselves in and become subscribers, to fill their empty coffers. Whatever monies that were paid to them from the CB fire sales has probably been spent. The legal process they have embarked on has cost money and they haven't seen any return on it. Hosts haven't flocked to Cloud subscription since the old established hosts own product, and the pirates won't sign up unless sued. So they only thing they can fall back on is the old "suits drive sales" pitch of Kurt. In this case they are playing on the fears of hosts in order to sell their product, and make themselves some money.

I believe you are assuming too much. The two hosts I spoke to yesterday contacted DigiTrax and voluntarily signed up for the Karaoke Cloud service. They were not sued, they were no coerced. Both were adding second rigs and felt it was the most economical way to obtain access to music.

Several people (including myself) have stated that the most likely scenario for signing up for Karaoke Cloud are new karaoke hosts. Those that are expanding with additional rigs are effectively the same thing.

There will no doubt be those that were sued that will go with the sub model and I suspect that will be the direction that Piracy Recovery will direct people.

-Chris

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-Chris

I maybe assuming too much Chris but if these 98 hosts and venues represent all of the verified hosts subscribing to Cloud that isn't enough subscribers to make Cloud viable. Also it doesn't answer the nagging questions about audits or why certified hosts aren't on the vetted list. Proactive hosts such as Athena, Steve Miller and others. This website does not address what the status of these hosts are. Any information about PR's program can only be obtained by the hosts giving PR information first. Sort of reminds me of the exchange between the Fat Man and Sam Spade in the Maltese Falcon. The Fat Man "you want me to tell you what I know and you don't want to tell me what you know, no sir, I don't think we can do business along those lines".

Hello Everyone!

I do apologize for not getting back sooner. Most of you know that when CB was around I worked for them. With that said, PR and DTE felt that I should be the one to work with everyone on the Audit process. I will not be doing all of the Audits but I am currently training a crew to do them. As I explained about a month ago, these will be voluntary audits. But with that said there will be a fee for the audit. Those of you who have gone through an audit before knows that it is time consuming. Not only will the CB discs be audited but so will the DTE downloads.

I will be trying to get ahold of everyone who submitted an inquiry today to discuss this in more detail.

Please be patient I am just one person.

-Gretchen

Well Gretchen long time no see. You mean with all of the resources of PR/WWD/CB/DTE they only have one person working on the problem of audits as well as doing the training, I hope you are getting a raise, or a bonus, or something. I would think this audit resumption would be a top priority, since all of the old certifications have expired. After all you don't want to give the impression that you have abandoned your most loyal supporters. Now I would like to ask a question does this list of verified hosts and venues represent to total amount of commercial cloud subscriptions? If so with Cloud being in existence for over a year isn't that a bit of a meager number of subscribers? Not enough to run a viable service is it? Since I won't be around professionally when you do manage to get this new audit system in place, I want to thank you now for your efforts on behalf of the hosts that will benefit from your work.

P.S. Why weren't the former certified hosts on your vetted list? Is it because the certification has expired, will they need to renew their certification on a yearly basis and pay the fees?

Well Gretchen long time no see. You mean with all of the resources of PR/WWD/CB/DTE they only have one person working on the problem of audits as well as doing the training, I hope you are getting a raise, or a bonus, or something. I would think this audit resumption would be a top priority, since all of the old certifications have expired. After all you don't want to give the impression that you have abandoned your most loyal supporters. Now I would like to ask a question does this list of verified hosts and venues represent to total amount of commercial cloud subscriptions? If so with Cloud being in existence for over a year isn't that a bit of a meager number of subscribers? Not enough to run a viable service is it? Since I won't be around professionally when you do manage to get this new audit system in place, I want to thank you now for your efforts on behalf of the hosts that will benefit from your work.

P.S. Why weren't the former certified hosts on your vetted list? Is it because the certification has expired, will they need to renew their certification on a yearly basis and pay the fees?[/quote]


First off, thank you very much for all of the kindness that you always show me!!

Good questions... The number of Hosts on the site is not all of the KCP Subscribers. I am working diligently on getting all of the Certificates out to all of the Cloud Members. Also, if a customer is using the KCP they are only Certified per Subscription. So if they are running multiple rigs only the KCP rig is Certified.

You are right that the reason the original CB Certified Hosts are not on the Site is due to the original certifications being expired. Once I have had a chance to answer all of the audit requests sent over we will be contacting former CB Certified hosts and letting them know of the new audit system.

One question seems to be still unanswered just how close are the various entities that make up the old CB label and the new DTE product? PR/WWD/CB seem to be the legal process part of the business model and DTE seems to be the production and subscription part of the business. I would think the association must be close since subscription of Cloud calls off the legal process. If not very close then shouldn't have PR/WWD set up their own independent auditing system for the CB product? Do you somehow kick back money to PR/WWD to compensate them for stopping their legal end of the business, once verification or certification is established? Will the new auditing system only be available to former original certified hosts, or will audits be available to all hosts that can show 1:1 compliance?