Karaoke Forums

DITTO!!
i believe this is a very important part of the whole thing.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Except what people are failing to see is their 'settlement' is about 3000 songs and from what I understand the destruction of their hard drive of all other content. 1 place around here that was nailed lost several thousand tracks and had to quit using the Karaoke Locker with the Karaoke Channel tracks. From what people tell me they have crap for selection anymore. I can compete with that!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If they really wanted to be competitive again Lon all they would have to do is license GEM and subscribe to Cloud, together that would give them a decent library of 6,000 + 12,000=18,000 tracks and they would be back in business.

If they weren't voluntarily paying for content before, they aren't going to voluntarily pay for it now. They have no real consequences at this time.

I am with Rick and Paradigm. Pull an Ike Turner on them and make them feel the hurt.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

The problem is Chris the manus are limited to what they can recover by these suits. If the standard settlement is around $5,000.00 dollars say in the California case, and the Panama City awards are the fair retail value of the stolen product, also $5,000.00. It would stand to reason they are not going to get the first born of the offending host or hostess. The reason they haven't been paying is because they are gambling that they won't get caught. Since there are more illegal hosts today than when this legal process started, I would say it is still a safe bet. Only a few high profile cases have been filed due mainly to the limited resources of the manus.

I don't want them to give up their first born. I want them to feel them to take a serious and legitimate financial hit. If, as the Sound Choice web site claims "with statutory fines running into the millions of dollars", then I would like to see something more significant than a $10,000 settlement. In the case of a Sound Choice lawsuit, I don't feel they should also walk away with a set of the best content on the market that improves the sound quality of their show and helps them compete against KJ's that have worked their asses off paying for their content all along.

The offenders should be made to feel it will be harder to stay in business as a consequence instead of receiving tools to improve their shows.


-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Why don't you get this. Kurt HIMSELF said "Suits drive sales" He's not interested in punishing these people. He wants to make them customers. It's not now, nor has it been about piracy. That whole thing is a line of crap. He just wants every KJ to own his GEM series. That is the same reason he wants to try to get the publishers involved. He wants to get rid of all the orphans, too, so people will have no choice but to buy his product. He will tolerate DTE because they are doing the same thing, and Sound Choice can't do it all, musically.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Why don't you get that I don't agree with HOW Sound Choice goes about punishing infringers. Why do you get to complain but I don't?

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

The purpose of these suits is not to punish evildoers, if that were the case they would be seeking remedy in criminal court rather than civil. You have to remember Chris that the legal host has already purchased their product and are not customers. It is that illegal 95% where all the future sales are. Especially since no new production is coming from SC currently and CB is no longer a producer. It's not even a $10,000.00 settlement it is half that amount. I find it amusing that the very sort of a program that I suggested 2 years ago on this forum is now being basically employed by the individual manus. That type of a program that was attacked by the certified hosts. Now some of the certified hosts are ok with it, only because the manus say it's ok. The manus are coming to grips with the fact that time is running out for them, and they need to make sales now if they are gong to survive. This is still 2013 the year summit I said we would see more manu implosions if Cloud did not work. The manus have no choice they have to sell to the pirates.

It is just a shock to see you complain about the manus Chris, you have been such a staunch supporter of them for the last few years. You have had some reservations about the legal process it is true, but basically you have been fine with the process up to now.

You have just ignored my complaints then. I have always been supportive of the rights of the karaoke companies to pursue legal action. I just don't support the remedies that come out of it. I have explained this many times over the past 2 years.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Because MY bald head is better looking than YOURS!!

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Then we are not really so far apart. I feel that they have a right to collect damages in the amount of their loss, which seems to be around the fair retail value of the product. When I see hosts suggesting that the amount should be more than that I have a problem. Also I have a real problem with the quality of the investigations that have gone on.

But doubt they would. They were stealing their music, so chances are they wouldn't pay for more. And even if they did, the core of the GEM is what 6000 songs anyway up to 2009. I have 3 times that much up to current.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Why would anyone have a problem with punitive damages above the actual damage. Punitive damages are given out on a regular basis. That is a civil punishment and is allowed by law.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

I almost agree with this.
I think it is fair to allow a single rig KJ who did not receive a cease and desist letter and perhaps didn't know any better to buy their way out of a suit and back into business with the purchase of a gem license at the regular price. However, I think that way out should also be contingent on their affidavit of testimony on where they acquired the pirated tracks.
Then everyone up the distribution chain should be pursued for maximum damages.
It's the distribution of these tracks that cause the damage and it's the distributors that should be stopped and destroyed.
These suits have been going on for several years now, and it appears there has been little effort to go after those who are spreading the pirated materials.

_________________
KNOW THYSELF

That's what I have been saying. BUt Kurt seems to prefer going after KJs, instead of the sources of the piracy.

_________________
I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

We do go after the "sources of piracy" as you call them when it's possible to do so. (I would argue that a KJ who uses pirated content is just as much a "source of piracy" as anyone else.)

There are numerous obstacles to doing so. Many of the sources are IRC channels, offshore servers, and torrents that are very difficult even for well funded operations to pursue. Others are cash sellers who make deals through Craigslist, and while we've done some busts based on that kind of activity, they tend to be people who are trying to make a few hundred dollars because they need to make rent, not some piracy magnate trying to put a second boat in the lake. Spending money on activities that don't yield a financial return makes it more difficult to spend money on activities that do--and that's necessary for the continued viability of the operation.

I am reminded of the time, years ago, when I served on the board of my neighborhood homeowners' association. One of the rules of the neighborhood--to which everyone had expressly agreed--was that you had to keep your mailbox in good condition. If your mailbox was damaged, it had to be repaired within 7 days. (I didn't make the rule; if it were up to me, there would be some flexibility, but that was the rule.) One woman's damaged mailbox was noted, and she got a letter from the association requesting that she repair the mailbox within 7 days. She refused. "Until you force all the other violations in the neighborhood to get fixed, why should I do anything?" she asked. I had to explain to her that regardless of others' violations, she had an obligation to fix her mailbox, and that if everyone took her position, no one would ever follow the rules.

KJs who use pirated material are committing wrongful acts. There is nothing wrong with calling them to account, even if there are others who are also committing wrongful acts whom we have not reached.

HEY!!! I resemble that!!!!

I think punitive damages above the actual damages in this case are excessive tim. In a civil court action you determine how the plaintiff was hurt or injured, in this instance the product was not paid for, so the plaintiff is awarded the fair retail value of the stolen product. At least that is what the judge in the Panama City case awarded SC and that was upheld on appeal. What other harm could the manu claim since they are not in direct competition with the hosts. Now if the knockoffs were sold at a swap meet in direct competition with SC I could see where additional damages could be awarded. It should also be noted in the Panama City case both sides had to pay their own court costs. If anything I think accepting payoffs by offenders to the tune of $5,000.00 as in the California case further undermines the idea that the manu is due more than the fair retail value of the product.