Karaoke Forums

You missed one Jim just lease the GEM and then SC got it's pay off and life can go on as normal.

Yes disc based host have been named in a VERY small percentage. And I have communicated directly with most of that few. I do highly recommend anyone who is in any type of a legal situation consult with an attorney. I have even helped hosts track down a list of IP lawyers in there area when asked.. None have needed the attorney for more than an initial consultation
(I can only speak about the SC lawsuits with any degree of confidence as none of the CB/PR lawsuits have progressed beyond the beginning stages).

I do not carry water for the manus....I do however have a strong conviction to try and keep anyone from being unjustly sued. I AM strongly anti-pirate because, I want to know that my grandsons CAN run shows if they still wish to when they are of age. I also want to know that people will also be able to go and sing...it is one of the few socially acceptable ways most grown ups have to play and experience child like joy. I really have a passion for this industry...I just love to see people blossom as they start singing

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Well if they were named I guess I wasn't totally lying was I Athena? You mean the way you were unjustly named by a jealous rival and sued? While I don't like pirates, I really haven't had any bad experiences with them. Like you my trouble seems to come from jealous legal rivals, but that is part of business also isn't it? If karaoke is still around for your grandsons I would be surprised, with all the technology advances and crackdown nationally on drinking and driving. That of course is something we will have to see played out. Karaoke hosting ends with me since my children picked different paths, and don't have the interest in the business. It is my nature to question other peoples motives, with the manus it is quite plain they are ruled totally by money. That is ok a person or company who truly loves money will do what it takes to obtain their goal. Let us a least be honest enough to call it what it is, and know where these companies are coming from.

Yes my company was named in the first lawsuit filed here in Florida, And I do understand why we were "caught in the net" so to speak. We were computerized multi-riggers with LARGE libraries. Even the person who turned us in was amazed that we did own our discs (that person later apologized for being wrong and admitted a bit of jealousy...apology was accepted and no hard feelings were harbored).

Yes we did pay an IP attorney for a consultation...a very well spent $250 that I have never regretted..(far from the thousands you claim)

In our area piracy exploded, even long term legal hosts were illegally downloading and selling off the discs they owned ( I know because we bought TONS of libraries ). I am happy to know that there were enough legal hosts left to restart a legitimate karaoke industry in this area. We even have seen an increase in "old timers" that abandoned the industry returning as of late.

Every business wants to be paid for the product/service they provide. The manufactures are no different.....I do some charity work every years but I would be just as pissed if I was to only get paid for 10%(or less) of my work...and so would you......at least be honest with yourself about that point .

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I wouldn't really be pissed Athena since money has never been the sole motivating factor in hosting karaoke. If it were I could have picked other professions that pay more. When I worked for the government full time I made much more. To me karaoke has always not only been a business, but also an art form. Sometimes artists are willing to take less just to promote art for it's own sake. I have always been fortunate that I had other sources of income besides karaoke. Just because you didn't pay thousands doesn't mean other accused hosts haven't. The recent host in Tennessee has already had to pay at least two thousand to a lawyer, since CB currently doesn't have an auditing service available.

"P.S. While it is true most business have to pay to stay in business, in the case of karaoke music a person should just have to pay once and be done with it. Not have the manu coming back on a regular basis demanding more payment."

If you use a disc as intended, then you do only pay once. If you want to copy it or media shift, then you have to pay. Why do you not get that? Why should you get something for nothing? When you media shift, you make a copy, you add an asset, so why should you not be charged for it? If you don't copy or media shift, you pay nothing extra.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

If that is true tim then why is the 1:1 compliance important? If you have the original disc and you can prove you shifted to one rig one hard drive then even Jim says there is no problem at least as far as SC is concerned. So what you are saying is you would have to by a whole new product especially made for use on the PC? Then why need audits at all?

"Just because you didn't pay thousands doesn't mean other accused hosts haven't. The recent host in Tennessee has already had to pay at least two thousand to a lawyer, since CB currently doesn't have an auditing service available."


The facts remain to be seen in that case...we do not know the details yet. Both sides have such different stories. PR in the legal documents, and the host on these forums. Paying thousands of dollars to legal counsel would be hundreds of hours of legal fees in Tennessee....If someone is legal why would they need 100's of hours ? Harrington already responded to the KJ the timeline of the lawsuits and that he had time to request (and undergo an audit)

PS the audits are needed because it is the only way to tell if someone IS 1-1...too many stole for too long and now all are being put under a microscope because of that historically proven fact. If you can come up with a feasible method of verifying 1-1 compliance that doesn't require audit I am sure everybody wold listen (Oh wait your solution is a $500 amnesty program that make all thieves legal)

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Host (one) not hosts (plural).

And the 80% of defendants who deal with these lawsuits without counsel don't seem to find it necessary.

Thank you Harrington for correcting that verbiage....I did know that of those who got back to me after contacting counsel only 1 continued to claim to be Original Disc Based ( others had burned discs or disappeared ) I was hesitant to post anything that could be twisted.

I DO WISH the outcomes were not kept quiet and that we all could see what the real outcomes were on these cases. I think a huge amount of disinformation would be laid to rest very quickly.

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

While this statement, on the surface is absolutely true, you do not mention at all that of the hundreds of suits filed, less than 1% has been against ODB hosts and that ALL of those cases were dropped after Sound Choice and the KJ worked things out.

Without that context, it is very easy for someone who is not familiar with the current state of karaoke to believe that is happens a lot more often than it really does.

-Chris

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-Chris

I wonder how many Jim are sorry they didn't have counsel after you talk them into signing away their rights?

Also remember to put into context Chris that the number of ODB hosts are small in comparison to the number of hosts that have moved to the PC. That would also account for their small percentage.

I to wish the was transparency Athena then maybe we would all see the picture Jim is presenting wouldn't be a rosy as he claims.

Wake up Athena the manus are making all thieves legal by selling them their products. The principle is the same if they buy off the manus they will not be prosecuted. Just the dollar amount is different. Instead paying a central agency a one stop flat fee you are having to pay off each little manu. There is no difference in the program just in the scale and price of it. Maybe you like being under a microscope doesn't mean everybody wants to be detained and questioned. From the way tim seems to feel you have to buy a product especially made for the PC, if that is the case what difference do audits or 1:1 compliance make?

"If that is true tim then why is the 1:1 compliance important? If you have the original disc and you can prove you shifted to one rig one hard drive then even Jim says there is no problem at least as far as SC is concerned."

Except you failed to mention the audit fee to prove you are compliant. They would be foolish to take a person's word for it. So once again, use OBDs or pay the audit fee and run on computer. It really is that simple.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Legal, fair competition is the intended result. Compensation for stolen IP is another desired outcome.

Your use of the words "bribe" and "pay off" are completely disingenuous.

This is about paying the mfrs, the producers of licensed karaoke product(s). In return, the KJ will receive legitimate permissions and even as it stands now, an awesome selection of tracks without the fear or risk of reprisal for violating copyrights, trademark, or shifting of said materials.

I say make ALL the pirates legal or make them go away. I have no problem competing with someone who has to pay for their materials, just like I do. It strikes me as odd that only the music is being discussed here. What if your competition had a way to reproduce their a/v gear without cost (or just stole it). Physical property and Intellectual property BOTH are assets to any company. The rights to physical property are inherent in possession. In the information/digital age, the rights to Intellectual property are rising in value. The laws and the judicial system are grappling with progression on the digital frontier but copyright and especially trademark are concepts that have been developed over the history of Western civilization.

You simply cannot protect your assets by swinging the gates open. Amnesty my 4$$.

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Never the same show twice!

Or you might see that if anything, I've understated it a bit. Who knows? Not you.

So these fees for audit are shared with the copyright owners?

Seems only fair, as they are the ones that created the music.

The CD+G producers did add "Swipes" (Cute name, eh?) to the song, but do not own the copyright, right?

I'm not sure about all this, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore..

Write if you get work..

Some of the info IS there for for any that wish to hunt and pay for legal documentation Lone Ranger,and I have posted documentation on this forum repeatedly only to have it twisted and spun.

While I will not betray confidences I do have a fair number of hosts that contact me and DO share the outcomes privately. I will try and help ANYBODY that contacts me. I am very anti-piracy however I do not wish for anyone to suffer needlessly. I suggest that they be honest at least with themselves and then advise consulting with a lawyer first. I will tell them my nutshell story and listen to theirs, sometimes just a person listening alone helps more than anyone can understand.

If they admit anything I tell them to handle the situation as quickly as possible to keep the costs as low as possible...if they claim to be legal I advise the quickest method to get an audit done. Some get back to me, some do not. Most do not have 1/4 of the venom expressed by some on these forums that have never been touched by the lawsuits.

If you look at the stories of ANY who found their way here, most who have been tru the process come out the other side supportive of the fight against piracy...... More than a couple have disappeared from here due to those who spewed hateful comments because they handled things and refused to be used as a pawn by those who scream the battle cry "counter-sue"...and then "they are being forced into showing support" no one wants to be a" crashtest dummy ".

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey