Karaoke Forums

Songwriters can block public performance in the U.S.

You may be thinking of recording artists, who cannot block public performance of their sound recordings unless it involves a digital transmission.

I stand corrected then. I always assumed a band could cover any song they wanted to as long as public performance fees were paid to the associated agency.

But for those that choose to get audit done it can be a good thing. Like me Athena has already been through the process in the past and I am sure like me she will make the effort to move forward with any audit offered from any manu.

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Rick or anyone else this applies to,
...No denying that you probably could find many KJ Pirates in your area. Maybe I'm using the wrong word "Association" in reference to forming a "Checks & Balances" system that would include overseeing all Karaoke Related issues (Commercial Venue, KJs, Karaoke Manufacturers & Licensing Agreements). Perhaps the word Agency should be used?

...In the link provided in my above posting, I tried to show examples (just ideas) of what could be done to protect us all. As far the off brands like Karaoke Kurrents or Fast Trax, if they can't prove to the Agency, that they have a valid license agreement with original copyrights holders to reproduce their tracks for karaoke, they legally can't be approved for commercial use or even put out for resale.

...As far as the Venues and KJs, you either have a Certificate/Permit/License to host Karaoke or you don't. Plus it's the Venue's responsibility to check the KJ's library (by either asking the KJ "Onsite" to go online and allowing the Agency's software to do a quick check comparison of the Hosting KJ's Media Library Storage Device/s for checking and comparing those stored Karaoke Files that match the KJ's online library) or if no internet access, the Venue could call the Agency (anytime 24/7, automated phone services like checking on a Credit Card Account) to make sure the KJ is in compliance.

...By the way, this wouldn't be a volunteer type of program to join, it's mandatory if you want to Host Karaoke in your Commercial Venue or run a Karaoke Show as a business. Laws might need to be changed but if they were, this means a Venue cannot offer Karaoke unless it has a Permit/Certificate/License to host from the Agency. For the KJ, the same applies, No Certificate/Permit/License means No Play.

...Advantages For
Venue: 1) As long as they confirm their KJ's Library (In-house or Sub-Contracted) once a month, less chance of an investigation or fear or being named in lawsuit.
KJ: After completing an audit and approval: 1) Less chance of being named in lawsuit. 2) Can go online to see what Karaoke Manufacturers are approved for what tracks. 3) Can walk into any Commercial Venue and see if they're approved for Karaoke by looking for Certificate/Permit/License. 4) Can go online and view any or all KJs and their Approved Libraries at Agency's web site (you can check on any KJ anywhere at anytime). Also, if you think you can trick the monthly audits by adding illegal tracks to your Approved media storage devices and then deleting them before the monthly audits, the Agency would have the rights to look for them on your device/s.
Karaoke Manufacturers: 1) Could use agency to check on any KJ or Commercial Venue at anytime. If they feel the need to send out investigators, that's still their right to do so.
Copyrights Holders of Original Tracks:1) Sees that the Agency is overseeing the Karaoke Manufactures (making sure their tracks aren't being produced illegally). 2) Could see if KJs are using Approved/Legal Karaoke Tracks by simply going online to Agency's web site. 3) The agency could take the fees collected from the Venues and give all or a percentage of those fees to the original copyrights holders. Hopefully encouraging them to release their music for Karaoke Production more often. Yearly fees collected from KJs would be used for the operational costs of the Agency.
Agency: Has bite to it. Helps monitor the industry as a whole. Has rules and fines: (Such as suspending the Venue's liquor license, $10,000 Fine, etc.). If a KJ wasn't "playing by the rules" the Agency could also set up fines/penalties including suspensions. Protects us all!

...In the end, if you think that a Venue would complain about paying $200-$300.00 per year or you (as a KJ) would complain about paying $500.00 (initial audit) the first year and $200.00-$300.00 per year thereafter as a KJ, then you're probably in the wrong Business. You might as well overlook the extra revenue that's brought in yearly from running/hosting Karaoke Shows. It's a small price to pay to avoid all of the "Gray Areas" in the industry!

...Ok, I'm done.... ...just an opinion

MadMusic,

Very well written and thought out.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Hey kjathena,
...Thanks but I know it's not written that well, I'm just not very good at translating (in written form) what I'm trying to actual state but I'm glad you can understand the point/purpose behind all of the hoop-la! . Am sure some will disagree but am just frustrated, like many, with all of the confusion that's out there.

you did a better job of getting your point across than I do sometimes...so yes it was well written

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Good luck with that one, guys...there are industries that are nowhere near having regulation like that, that are much more lucrative to the publishers than this...

MMO are you talking about the GOVERNMENT regulating karaoke? While I applaud the thought you put into your proposal, I have all the government I want right now.

As for your idea, whatever association or agency would have to have the law behind it or there could be no punishment for violating the criteria. We can't even get KJs to agree on what version of a particular song is the best, how would you get KJs, venues and manufacturers all to agree on anything?

So let's say you get all that together, now you have to address the restraint of trade issue that would arise because somebody, somewhere, will be able to get a lawyer to file that action.... and we could create an entire new forum category just to discuss it all.

bumping

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

That is ok for you guys rumbolt you and Athena are going to be running high profile karaoke services for a long time to come God willing. For others audits are really not needed if the product is one not used in a show, or two the time line you are going to be in the industry is so short. Currently only one company SC has a viable auditing system in place, I don't carry their product. The other company CB/WWD/PR/DTE has no auditing system in place right now today. It will be impractical for me to get my CB product audited since most likely it will not even be up and running by the time I check out from the industry. So getting audited is not the best bang for the buck for everybody. A way to avoid the audit altogether is just lease SC product or subscribe to Cloud, that would satisfy the legal process manus, once they get paid off. I guess the host just has to think of it as a type of insurance, and pass the cost along to his or her customers. To me the audit itself is sort of like the suits it drives sales of product, rather than go through the expense and hassle just pay the manus their cut.

While the thought of big brother GOVERNMENT might be distasteful to many hosts is it any worse than having all these big brother wannabes trying to stick their collective hands into hosts pockets as well? It is quite plain that if hosts want to stay in business they are going to have to grease someone's palms. The question is if you pay all these various groups off every year like the locusts, or you have one stop payment that covers everything. My vote is to have one place collect the money and pay it out to the various claimants. In return for an operator's license, no audit required. The playing field would then be level since all hosts would have access to all materials and the various injured parties could obtain compensation. Then every host could focus on their shows and forget about if they remembered to pay off anyone.

With US cities and towns going bankrupt every day just trying to provide basic services to the residents, I find it a real stretch that they would give a damn about karaoke piracy. Music, video and software piracy are a much larger problem and nobody is really doing anything about that. Where do I go to get my music audit? Who can I call to stop all the pirate DJs from downloading MP3 files and competing unfairly with me? No place that I can do that so I suck it up and do what I do. If the number of karaoke songs is the only way you can compete, maybe you should rethink your career.

One thing is for sure rick karaoke is such a minor issue to most local government agencies that in California in some towns and cities no business license is required. The need for such a license is up to the city you reside in.

P.S. I don't have every song ever made, after many year's collecting and hosting my library is around 18,500 karaoke tracks and another 6,000 audio for DJing. How many tracks do you really need if all you are playing is 60 to 75 per gig? The trick is having the 60 or so songs that are requested.

It's my opinion that having an agency similar to the one in the UK would ease restrictions and provide more structure versus create more restrictions. Today, we are restricted by a lack of foundation, defined rules and structure. The only player that benefits are music producers and possibly karaoke manufacturers. Meanwhile bars, hosts singers and even the courts are mired in restrictions founded in indecision.

And how does the host pass this cost along to his/her Customers (they have Customers???... I thought it was the Venue who had Customers))? A Host (aka KJ) gets paid by the Venue for his/her services. If the Host/KJ is usually making $150 per show (take that as an assumed nationwide average), and now has to pay this extra money to the Manus, how does he pass the cost on??? Raise his/her price??? BUT the venue is willing to pay more to the Host/KJ. You're fired... Next KJ is hired (probably at a lower price too).

Well a rule of business is if you can't pass the cost along you have to eat it, right cue? That is if you want to stay in business, one more reason for having the host not get into the karaoke service business, they will have do absorb all extra costs, and further reduce the profit margin. Making the whole business look more unattractive. Oh by the way the customer is the person who hires your service it doesn't have to be a venue, it could be a wedding planner or a private individual throwing a party etc.etc. etc. I have done shows for military units at bases as well.

Over the years we have paid for licences and insurance all of those we basically "ate", yes they were considered when setting our rates no differently than costs for transportation and discs/hardware or the cost of printing and assembling books. We do not charge a venue for printing/repairs/replacements or any of our operating costs. Yes our profit margin did go down at times even WAY down. As a business we were on the brink of folding a few different times, but we were able to pull up and recover. A person who looks at karaoke as a hobby may see things a bit differently......they may not see the need for insurance/licences or even books. It is a difference in veiwpoint based upon where the KJ is coming from. Karaoke is our business.....it is what pays our bills, and puts food on our table so we treat it as a serious matter. A hobbist is just out to make a few bucks and have a good time, they do not have to take it as seriously.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Exactly how do you define a hobbyist Athena? If a person makes a profit for 3 years in a row he is considered by the I.R.S. running a business and can deduct business expenses. Once you start getting paid for what you do, in my book that means you are no longer an amateur. If a boxer wins one purse he is no longer considered an amateur but a professional, and his hands a lethal weapons. If all the mom and pop rig operators are considered hobbyists then how can the manus sue them, they are not commercial business's? Less than a third of my income comes from selling my karaoke service, does that make me an hobbyist? If so please tell the I.R.S since I do have to declare my income and pay taxes on it.

sorry incomplete post/dupe see below

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey