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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:07 am 
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For the OP's ( Twistedangel1981) original question:

There is ONE company- Sound Choice/Slep-tone- that wants to audit KJs. This is a failed karaoke producer that now has a business model based on income from litigation and/or "settlements". The audit is what is known as a "fishing expedition", used in hopes of not only gaining evidence that will bring them income in the manner described above, but- in signing the "Audit Agreement" (read it carefully) - putting the KJ under their thumb.

Be VERY cautious in your future decisions regarding this matter.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:50 am 
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HarringtonLaw wrote:
doowhatchulike wrote:
Am I the only one that sees this continued evasiveness as a very negative ongoing activity that has no basis in legality? Who wants to be (or should be) constantly monitored in their independent business???


Your mistake is in thinking that a business that uses the intellectual property of another company in its business, with or without permission, is an "independent business."

SC in particular is constantly accountable to the upstream owners of the intellectual property it uses.

If you make an outright purchase of SC discs and use only those original discs to put on karaoke shows, SC has no interest in monitoring you at all. But when you step out of that, such as by making copies onto a hard drive, that comes with consequences, one of which is some monitoring. I don't think anyone would characterize it as "constant" monitoring.

To answer the OP's question more directly: Auditing is part of the process SC has established in order for a KJ to obtain the permissions necessary to conduct media shifting from original media to non-original media such as a hard drive. It is 100% voluntary between the KJ and SC, except that if you conduct a media shift without permission then you are subject to a lawsuit for trademark infringement. You can't initiate an audit for someone else--it has to be something they do. The process involves, among other things, comparing the tracks stored on a KJ's hard drives to the original media (CDGs) that the KJ owns and possesses, to verify 1:1 correspondence.

If you suspect someone of piracy, there are various mechanisms for reporting it. I suggest visiting soundchoice.com or scsafeharbor.com for more information.


8) If this whole issue of permission is so important to the survival of the karaoke manufacturers, why is it that only two companies out of the whole pool of manus insist on it? One is a marginal producer of product, and one is out of the production end of it altogether. Once the information on the disc is legally purchased then the owner of the material should be able to back it up, why is permission needed? I can see a problem if mass quantities of product are being produced and then sold hurting SC or CB/DTE's bottom line, by the particular owner of the product named in the suit. They should then focus on the producer's of the hard drives. In the case of CB since they are no longer producer's there is no bottom line to hurt. Depending on of course the nature of the relationship between WWD/PR and CB/DTE. A relationship that is still at least legally a bit mysterious, probably for good reason. Who do you report the manus to James if you suspect them of over reaching and filing shotgun lawsuits with the aim of squeezing settlements out of hosts and venues?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:26 am 
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JoeChartreuse wrote:
For the OP's ( Twistedangel1981) original question:

There is ONE company- Sound Choice/Slep-tone- that wants to audit KJs. This is a failed karaoke producer that now has a business model based on income from litigation and/or "settlements". The audit is what is known as a "fishing expedition", used in hopes of not only gaining evidence that will bring them income in the manner described above, but- in signing the "Audit Agreement" (read it carefully) - putting the KJ under their thumb.

Be VERY cautious in your future decisions regarding this matter.


The above is ONE person's opinion from someone that has never been through an audit.

I have done the Sound Choice audit and it is NOT a fishing expedition. It is simply a means of validating that the person being audited has original Sound Choice media in their possession for everything they have on their hard drive. They do NOT look at other manufacturers.

Audits come in two forms -

Voluntary (what I did) - a pro-active means of showing compliance with Sound Choice 1:1 policy and in the process get certified by Sound Choice.

Involuntary - Possibly required as part of a lawsuit where there is suspicion that the KJ does NOT have discs to match what they have on their hard drive.

The Audit does NOT put you under Sound Choice's thumb. There are repercussions for not complying with post-audit policy, but those repercussions are essentially no different that what you would be subject to if were never audited in the first place.

As noted, I have done the Sound Choice audit. It has been a year and a half and Sound Choice has never asked to see my discs again. They have never asked me for more money. They have never asked me for anything. I feel ZERO pressure from Sound Choice.

If you have questions about the audit process, I suggest you contact some of the people on the list here -

http://www.soundchoicestore.com/certifi ... pg-69.html

I have reached out to some of the people on the list and not a single person has ever expressed to me that they feel any heat from Sound Choice.

-Chris

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:55 am 
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The auditor will check your discs against your hard drive to insure you are 1-1 and mark each disc with a stamp.


And... the auditor comes over to your pad to do this???


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Rockrz wrote:
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The auditor will check your discs against your hard drive to insure you are 1-1 and mark each disc with a stamp.


And... the auditor comes over to your pad to do this???


In my case, the auditor came to the club where I do my show.

-Chris

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:17 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
In my case, the auditor came to the club where I do my show.

-Chris

Same here. As I already have all my discs AT the club at all times, it made sense. The auditor told me it was the quickest one he ever did. I was able to create a report of every disc on my hard drive in manufacturer numerical order, discs are all in jewel cases & number and organized the exact same way. He asked for a disc number, I pulled it right out. He told me most kj's have them in binders or sleeves & often with their own numbering system which makes it more difficult.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:32 am 
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8) Having no SC used in my show I don't know what could be audited, at least by SC? As for CB/PR/WWD/DTE from what I understand they have not resumed auditing for the CB product. So it would be impossible the be able to even get and audit on CB material. This is in keeping with what I take is their new policy. Either subscribe to Cloud or face possible law suit over CB material that is on anything except the original disc.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:39 am 
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They can also do the audits via Skype.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:23 pm 
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chrisavis wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
For the OP's ( Twistedangel1981) original question:

There is ONE company- Sound Choice/Slep-tone- that wants to audit KJs. This is a failed karaoke producer that now has a business model based on income from litigation and/or "settlements". The audit is what is known as a "fishing expedition", used in hopes of not only gaining evidence that will bring them income in the manner described above, but- in signing the "Audit Agreement" (read it carefully) - putting the KJ under their thumb.

Be VERY cautious in your future decisions regarding this matter.


The above is ONE person's opinion from someone that has never been through an audit.

I have done the Sound Choice audit and it is NOT a fishing expedition. It is simply a means of validating that the person being audited has original Sound Choice media in their possession for everything they have on their hard drive. They do NOT look at other manufacturers.

Audits come in two forms -

Voluntary (what I did) - a pro-active means of showing compliance with Sound Choice 1:1 policy and in the process get certified by Sound Choice.

Involuntary - Possibly required as part of a lawsuit where there is suspicion that the KJ does NOT have discs to match what they have on their hard drive.

The Audit does NOT put you under Sound Choice's thumb. There are repercussions for not complying with post-audit policy, but those repercussions are essentially no different that what you would be subject to if were never audited in the first place.

As noted, I have done the Sound Choice audit. It has been a year and a half and Sound Choice has never asked to see my discs again. They have never asked me for more money. They have never asked me for anything. I feel ZERO pressure from Sound Choice.

If you have questions about the audit process, I suggest you contact some of the people on the list here -

http://www.soundchoicestore.com/certifi ... pg-69.html

I have reached out to some of the people on the list and not a single person has ever expressed to me that they feel any heat from Sound Choice.

-Chris


While it is always good to question what one might read in these forums, and research for oneself, I would NOT recommend asking anyone associated with SC or their actions for verification, but would rather suggest one contacts their own legal counsel- with ONLY YOUR own best interests in mind- and ask said counsel to read a copy of the the audit agreement, do a bit of fact-finding, and offer their opinion. That is how one verifies legal information.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear from an audit. A proactive audit offers permission to media shift and offers protection(from lawsuits brought by the karaoke manufactures) for the KJ and the venues where they operate. Consulting with a IP attorney is always a good idea to insure that you are abiding by all applicable laws.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:33 pm 
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kjflorida wrote:
...A proactive audit offers permission to media shift (from the Manufacturers who are offering audits (which, at this point in time, is only SC)), and offers protection (from lawsuits brought by the karaoke manufactures) for the KJ and the venues where they operate....

There... I fixed it for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:02 pm 
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Cueball, is correct, at this point only SC is offering audits. That however could change at any time.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Seeking out legal advise is always a good suggestion, although one should to into such an endeavor keeping in mind that said advice still comes with a margin of error, especially in circumstances that seem as uncertain and convoluted as what is talked about in this forum.

Once thing is certain: companies operate every single day in the gray areas of the legal process, because I believe we can all agree that no industry is 100% spelled out in every area of legality. Many folks on here have voiced their thoughts about one of the companies on here that is, ironically, heavily involved in the legal aggression in the industry, as being one that might have taken advantage of some of those gray areas by "selling" product to an entity overseas and "re-importing" it for use here...


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