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I know this has been rehashed to death. But it reared its ugly head again last night.

For my shows, duets count as both persons turn for that round - especially during busy nights.

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People Must Sing Duets On their normal turn. if I see someone on stage more than twice in a rotation they will lose their next turn. People with groups that sing on each others turns (ie: 4 to 5 people all on stage at once every time and never sing alone) I consolidate into one turn per round. larger groups (ie: 8 to 10 people and up) get consolidated into 2 turns per round, separated evenly in the rotation.

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Sal "Kjmann" Esquivel
Karaoke With Sal - Website

I count the duet as the turn of the first person's name on the slip. If they sang without each other separately it would be two turns so I'm not going to keep someone from sharing their turn--it is their few minutes of time so they can share it as they want.

The reason I do this is I was at a bar that had people who couldn't/wouldn't sing alone for one reason or another--legally blind, no confidence, whatever. They couldn't participate without assistance so I didn't penalize their assistant for helping. I didn't really have too many of the types who did duets just to get more turns. The regulars were fine with this system but sometimes I would get a visitor who would try to stir up trouble over it--usually a visiting host about to start a show next door.......

I do have it in my books that if it is busy I would like people to count their duets as both people's turns. I also have it in the books that if they are trying to do the group thing and have the same people up 5 times in a row under a different name each time then that will be curtailed. People will complain no matter how it is done. I've found that at the 21 to 30 age group shows they actually prefer the constant mob sing and that gets tricky if you get traditional karaoke people mixed in. I have guidelines in my books but have had to adapt sometimes depending on the venue.

That what I do!

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Same with me... Duets count as a turn for the first name on the request slip. If "John and Suzy" put up a duet, and Suzy follows John in the rotation, and she puts up a slip with "Suzy and John," Suzy and John will remain on stage, and I will announce that it is now Suzy's turn in the rotation, and she requested that John sing with her for her turn. If this becomes a pattern with John and Suzy, I will ask that they either start submitting separate song requests, or I will start to combine their turns as one instead of two.

If I have a group of 3 or more people that are coming up to the stage for every single turn, I will then start consolidating their songs into 1 pile for their turn. Now, if one of those people submit a song request that doesn't include the rest of their little group, I will put that person up in his/her normal turn.

A duet counts as both singers turn.

I do allow some leeway for people who are genuinely assisting a more nervous singer, sometimes a duet can inadvertently bump someone up the queue if they are singing with someone in other half of the rotation. (singer 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 3+7 want to duet so the rotation would then be 1,2,4,3+6,5,7,8 and the next rotation would be 1,2,4,3,6,5,7,8) I will manipulate the bumped singers go a little to keep the less willing singer happy.

It's not a huge issue, as most people prefer to duet with me - the addicts rather not waste a turn singing 'the same ol' duets' with a nervous singer and nervous singers prefer to have a familiar, sober face who is going to help then rather than take over.

Rarely get complaints about duets but then duets aren't really that popular at my show. My complaints are always because I've forgotten someone and they've been waiting over an hour to sing - which loosely translates as they have only waited 30 minutes so far and their name is on the scrolling rotation and has been since they indicated they wanted to sing.

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'A genius is one who can do anything except make a living'. Joey Adams.

I know of this one KJ Couple who don't allow Duets to be sung in the regular rotation/s. They have set aside 1 rotation (either at the end of the 1st rotation or at the end of the 2nd rotation (depending how long the 1st rotation had been)) which is strictly for Duets. So, if you submitted a Duet, you would get called up to sing. If someone else submitted a Duet, and wanted you to join them, you would get to sing again. The Regulars did not seem to take advantage of this rotation. If they really wanted to sing a Duet, they would submit one. If they didn't submit a Duet, they just didn't sing in that 1 rotation. Nobody really cared about being skipped in that rotation, as it usually worked out to be anywhere between 2 to 8 songs.

I used to do as you guys, but it started getting abused to the point it needed to be stopped.

John & Suzy
Suzy & Tom
Jerry
Betty & Suzy
Ed & Suzy

etc.

So now Suzy has been on stage 4 times even though her name was first on a slip 1 time in 'her' spot. The audience picks up on that and then they complain about Suzy being up so many times before they sing once or they start to figure out how to manipulate the rotation to get up more with others without actually using their spot. Eliminate the temptation, it eliminates the problem!

I have been known to bend on this rule, if I know the song has very little parts for the 2nd person, then I might let it go. It does depend on the situation, how big the rotation is, etc.
Also I try to keep stage jumpers off - those who are not invited by the singer and just come up and try to join in. It doesn't happen very often and most times I can get the jumper off the stage, but on occasion (rare) the singer just says to let them sing with them after repeated tries.

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That is what is so weird to me. The whole idea that people will give different names or attach to other people all to get more turns while others are counting the seconds that they feel should have gone to them. You wonder where the fun has gone. If I had a bunch of people playing the system that way then I would have to be more strict also. I actually had legally blind people who needed someone to sing in their ear to remind them of the lyrics and it was rare that someone would complain about that. Most people understood. If someone did complain then I told them they had an equal opportunity to sing a duet with someone else. It has actually been my theory that part of the entertainment for some is complaining about the host or the rotation. The show I know that had the most complaints ran for 16 years.

Counts as the the round for first name on slip, neither singer allowed more than twice a round or they are skipped until next round.

I have to say I'm flexible on this. If the rotation is small... like four or five people, I'll let a pair go up as a duet, rather than counting that as their turn... IF (and this is a big if) they are actually going to sing and perform.

Drunk idiots get one shot. I don't have too many rules when it comes to performing, but if you can't even manage an off key rendition, you don't get to come up again. I'm not going to subject the bar to such a performance again.

Now... I do preface such flexible duet performances with, "Hey, I know its a little slow, so no problem, but normally duets are sung on someone's turn."

I'm not here to be a rules lawyer. I'm here to make sure everyone has fun. If there are only five or six people participating... I say let them have their fun! I have found most people get this... they understand that its slow, but if the night gets busier, they won't be able to get up like that. That's the benefit for participating and coming early!

Now, once its starts to get busy... 10 or more in the rotation, I get more strict. A duet happens on someone's turn, and no person can get appear in the rotation more than TWICE.

Of course, this is all about people handling... frequently DRUNK people handling.

Now, if someone is a genuinely trying to manipulate me, and game the system, guess what? I just take them out of the rotation completely. You only have to do this once... other people will see it, and realize that trying to get over on you isn't a good idea.

We need to have rules... yes. But this isn't a court of law, its karaoke, and fun time. A good karaoke host knows when to be flexible and not let the rules spoil the fun.

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Someone singing in the ear of someone to help keep them on track or just being up for moral support, I do not count as a turn on stage. When someone is just doing the whisper in the ear, or just being up there, they don't even have a mic. If anyone complained in these situations, then they can go somewhere else.
It's the ones that put up songs with others and tend to actually sing more of the song than the person they came up with. Or will put up songs with people that don't sing and then take over the song because the other person don't even know it.

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I am currently dealing with this situation at one of my gigs. The main regular, who has been going to this show consistently for the past 4 years, has started bringing his son to the show. His son is very shy and hardly opens his mouth. They both turn in slips and every time the son gets on stage to sing, you guessed it... the dad joins him and does 100% of the singing, while the son just hides in the background holding a mic, but not uttering a word. So the dad really gets to sing twice during every rotation.

I try to be flexible when it comes to duets and people helping other people sing, but this particular case seems to me like the dad is really just working the system. I haven't said anything to him about it... because I'm not really sure what to say, or if I should say anything at all. So far, no one has complained, but it may be because the dad has been coming to this show longer than anyone and people are just used to him as THE KARAOKE GUY. He is ALWAYS there every week, usually 15 - 30 minutes before the show starts.

I hate that guy.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

i'm with everyone else first name on slip....

but like lonman, if it get abused then they only get one song in that rotation.....

I have one singer that turns in a slip and then only does backup so her friend can
sing twice in a rotation, I was kinda rude so they don't come in anymore, which is
good cause the regulars that play the karaoke game correctly are happy she is gone.

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It's all good!

I had a female version of this at one time. we called her the "karaoke whore".

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Sal "Kjmann" Esquivel
Karaoke With Sal - Website

My rule is "one free duet". In other words, you can be on stage twice in a rotation just once. This gives a couple, or a singer, a chance to do a duet without feeling penalized. After that, it is a counted turn for all singers.

I won't allow what I call "The Marcy Show" (after the first singer who I saw do this). That is when a single singer coopts multiple people, for whatever reason, and tries to get on stage five times in a rotation. It is a karaoke show, not "The Marcy Show".

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I swear there's at least one singer in every crowd who will try to game the duet system to get on stage more. I like Lonman's approach more all the time and am reluctantly leaning towards adapting it because of the way certain singers get people who don't really sing to sign up for duets.

As for other approaches, don't think they won't figure out that all they have to do is get the other person's name on the slip first - especially if you write it down in your rules - and if you don't write it down - well that will get them whining......

By all means, DO talk to him. If he's THE KARAOKE GUY then allow him onstage with his son but don't give him a mic. OR let him know he can come up but not have a live mic. If he reacts poorly then you can always reinforce his explanation that he's "just there to help his son" and shouldn't need a mic - live or otherwise.

My wife is VERY shy about singing and refuses to put in a slip without both our names on it. When I go up with her I'll either refuse the mic or turn it upside down to show the others that this is HER TURN and I'm just there for support.

And yes, I'd explain to people who tried to abuse with the whole duet double up that it counted as their turn - unless it was a low rotation and I needed the singers

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