Karaoke Forums

He is saying exactly what he posted. Can you not read?

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-- Mark

I can see why people think you are Kurt, you are about the same size if that is supposed to be a picture of you. I never saw a Kurt until the summit yesterday. I expected him to be taller and bigger, and a little badder. Is that the reason for the mask and your not wanting to disclose who you really are? Oh just for your information the reason I have not been responding to you on the free forum, is I promised Rumbolt I would not make any more posts there. It seems my opinions run contrary to the intent of the forum to be a rallying platform for all certified cheerleaders. I read well enough to understand that in one day it went from two manus suing for their product, to two manus trying to corner the market of karaoke music. Making a sales pitch that if hosts wanted to stay in business they would either have to lease a product or subscribe to a service. That host libraries would be more limited through threatening to use the publishers to have host remove unlicensed materials. Even if those materials were purchased in good faith and the host has the original discs and prove of purchase. Also there is this matter of the no fly list, where songwriters don't want their works sung. I hope that all the supporters of the two active legal process manus are pleased. If not there is little they can do about right Insane? Have an Insane day.

*sigh*

Publishers who sue end users will do so in their own names, on their own behalf. They will do their own investigations, although the manus will likely cooperate. They will share resources. This isn't posturing; it's reality. What you do with the information is up to you.

Most publishers will not be suing end users, as I remember they tried suing home users and ended up with a pr black eye. In the case of publishers they will start at the top and work their way down. First they will sue the manus that did not properly license their own product right James? They will next go to the large venue chains, casinos and large multi-riggers. It is very doubtful they will follow up on the mom and pop single rig operators, to the publishers that would be bottom feeding. If you look at the recent filings in Tennessee and Oregon the idea has been to go for the deep pockets, otherwise it is not cost effective to even file mass suits. So as far a suits are concerned size does matter. The information is of little good to me since I will be clear of all of this in a few months. Have a legal day.

i do agree with you here lone....
Shure and Sennheiser are hunting counterfeits, but they are not going to go after the singer using a counterfeit mic, just the ones making those counterfeit mics. and as of yet there is no other karaoke manu but SC that considers a rip to computer to be a counterfeit. the music publishers allow copies to computer with no audit or fee so there is no reason to believe that htey would go after anyone but those that are the ones MAKING the unauthorized discs for RESALE to hosts.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I assume that was humor. It is not now, or has it ever been, the responsibility of the end user to determine and validate the licensing of of tracks produced by the music companies.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

So why post something as fact when it's meaning hasn't even been determined yet?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The meaning has been determined. What was said is very clear. My reply to you I was directing you to confirm by listening for yourself. I watch Athena stress herself repeating and rewording on these forums and I refuse to follow that path.

One sad fact about this whole business of limiting host options will be that the selection of available material will be greatly reduced. I remember in the not so distant past I said something about a few manus are trying to get control of the supply of available karaoke product, and was told I was being paranoid and over dramatic. The way the summit has tried to shape the karaoke debate it comes down to supporting two manus in order to avoid possible legal actions by these manus, and to insure the material you are using is currently licensed. The certified camp thinks this will help them in the long run. While it is true it could have an impact on the piracy problem, at what cost to the independence and freedom of the individual owner operator? You will have to do business with companies that may be you don't agree with, as far as their business practices. That the manus have abandoned old marketing formulas for the new "suits drive sales" mantra. That every time you play a song you put yourself at risk of someone coming after you. These manu products or services might shield you from some of the dangers, but they can't protect you from every danger. They are selling insurance that comes with limitations. No host can run a show from now on without having to be concerned if they are doing something illegal. We are headed in the wrong direction making more hosts illegal instead of legal. Simply by using one, or both of the two manus products or services will not completely protect you and you could still be in theory sued. Just keep that in mind, when you trade away freedom and choice for the dubious illusion of being protected.

REALLY. SO:

ONLY U.S. manunufactured and licensed DISCS- meaning downloads and media shifts ARE NOT COVERED are safe.

ALSO, U.K. ( Non U.S.) Licensed discs are excluded ( including GEM discs since they are only UK Licensed)

That was how your post explained things.

Do you want to stick by the above? Here's your chance to renege.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I try not to "worry" too much about what I can and cannot play. I have 2 rigs, one centers around a GEM, one around over 800 sc disks, I own over 10,000 disks including 2+ sets of top/pop monthly, pioneer, dk, maestro, all hits etc, I purchased 2400 cb disks from cb at the "fire sale". I certified with sound choice and the only reason I wasn't cb certed was I only owned 24 disks until they closed. If a publisher wants to tell me what I can or cannot play they are welcome to to come to my storage building, go through the disks and tell me which specific tracks I cannot play. I paid 30 each for most of my sc, 50 for the dk, 40 for the pioneer cds and 125-150 for the lasers. The Maestros and Pockets were around 30 when I purchased most of them. My 1961 pontiac tempest does not pass current impact or emissions and Pontiac is out of business, but GM (or anyone else) can't tell me I can't drive it and have to rent a car from them if I want to continue to drive.

I converted to digital in 2002, I helped run a couple of the Jolt get togethers, where the Stovells saw my rig and so did SC high ups. I also brought my disks to those get togethers. (can't say I trusted the tech 100% in those days). Both companies gave their blessings to my face and in front of others at the time.

I used to purchase multiple copies of everything from a local dealer, and gave him over 175,000 over the years. I now purchase multiples direct from the manufacturers so they have records of my purchases also.

I have about 50 sunfly / sbi from kv and funny thing is Digitrax sent me many of those same songs when I purchased their "catch up pack" when they started up.

There are 2 or 3 KJs in my area that have been around for 20+ years like me. They own what they play. The other 20 or so don't own sh*t and undercut us at every turn. However, since I try and be legal, follow the boards, buy from legit sources etc. the impression is given that I would be targeted because someone up the chain didn't pay for something or the game changed (sync rights and so on) isn't right.

If an artist says nothing new, fine but I will use what I have paid for. I wonder how many of those artists say no because their labels say what a pain the *ss the karaoke industry is, as opposed to protecting their artistic integrity.

By the way, if Piracy recovery and SC want to show they are serious, shut down the KJ Bills of the world or it looks like they operate with their blessing so they can go after the ones who purchase from them. Don't just slap the pirates and make them competitors, SHUT THEM DOWN. If more venues were available I would buy and build more rigs and I've already shown my willingness to spend money to make it.

Sorry this turned into an off topic rant , but I'm a little sick of being kicked, threatened, warned when I am not the problem.

Just one question ed with all the money you have invested in your materials and you already leasing the GEM series, wouldn't it be cheap insurance to subscribe to the Cloud just to cover your maybe exposed CB flank?

I own almost everything on the cloud, and spent a big chunk when Karaoke was 2-300 per night and I was making 75-100 k year on it. I now buy about 120.00 in total music a month and the cloud is not a viable expense. I also do most of my work in rural areas where connecting during shows is not possible, and getting requests later would defeat half of the benefits of it. Digitrax sends me monthly releases and bills be for both rigs already. I would have to pay for 2 subscriptions, not worth it.

Only if one is paranoid.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Personally with only a few months left in the business there is nothing to be paranoid about tim. Isn't the purpose of the suits to create an air of urgency? Didn't Kurt say at the summit "suits drive sales". Without these suits the illegal hosts would have little reason to lease GEM or subscribe to Cloud, right? If you ever saw "The Music Man", Professor Harold Hill created an emergency concerning the pool table in town, and blew it up so everyone saw the need of a boy's band. If hosts and venues don't feel a little paranoid then this new sales model of SC and CB/DTE is not working.

I'm not paranoid, just sick of all of it. No Sunfly, but digitrax sold it to me in the past 12 months, No _____ (insert Artist Here) , but they were on the All Star disks I bought through Sound Choice last month. I'm not blaming SC or Digitrax, I still purchase from both, but I've reached the Give me product to purchase that I can use for shows to run my business or go away, either one. I guess it's I've supported this industry for a quarter of a century ( and half my life ), support me (get me music, stop real pirates), or leave me alone. The US music industry and movie industry is a clusterf*** and things need to fixed from the inside first. Saddest part is almost everyone in the industry gets their chunk except the artist for the most part. Ask an artist from the 50-70's what they see from ascap, sesac bmi a year on their music.

The thing that bothers me ed, as an old timer to is that compared to what me and you had to pay for product, newbies are getting a deal. They can be made legal and still under cut the older more established hosts and the venues they work for. I really don't see how this helps the certified hosts that have supported the manus in this war on piracy. Yet the certified hosts continue to think the manus are working in their best interests. They are working for their own best interests period, if it happens to help the long time host that is just an added benefit. If a host has to pare down his or her library to what the newbies have they will have no advantage there either.

I paid for that product and made money off it years ago. A new computer doesn't run me 7000.00 anymore either. That doesn't bother me, it bothers me more that people aren't paying to stay current, or pay a non manufacturer like kjbill 20 bucks a month for every song released that month. How many of them think they are legal because they are paying him a whole 20 a month when their initial 100,000 songs only cost them 300.00 on a hard drive.

Again, wasn't trying to hijack thread, but this goes to the artist part also, you're legal so dont play ________. Up the street they own nothing so it's ok for them. It's bull___.

(Boy, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.)

"No Sunfly, but digitrax sold it to me in the past 12 months, No _____ (insert Artist Here) , but they were on the All Star disks I bought through Sound Choice last month"

Ed the difference is that ASK and DT are apparently purchasing additional licencing to cover use in the USA, where as if you buy directly from Sunfly, SBI ect. the additional fees are not getting paid. That is why the DT and ASK do not have the entire libraries.

And yes pirates are my top pet peeve, followed closely by crap-i-oke hosts

The problem is there is no codified fee. Just like the karaoke companies gave us the we'll look the other way regarding your computer if you can prove you own it, The record industry appears to have a similar fee schedule depending on what company they are dealing with and what labels are involved. Everything comes down to extrapolations of 1000 differing copyright / licensing laws because THERE ARE NONE COVERING KARAOKE. There is only case law as to how other licensing laws are to be interpreted from other fields. I'm no expert but reading over some of these old cases is closer to comparing apples to hand grenades , than apples to oranges.

I wonder if Kurt has tried forming a shill company with another set of frontmen to see what response he gets from the labels.