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Bazza
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 Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:11 am |
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twansenne wrote: Bazza wrote: Is tipping the bartender or wait staff viewed as a bribe? Yes, if tyhere are 30 people in front of you and you tip and get a drink next. Bazza wrote: Is tipping your hair stylist or barber a bribe? Yes if you arive at the barber and 3 people are waiting, and you hand him a tip to get your hair cut next. Bazza wrote: Is tipping the kid who mows your lawn a bribe? Yes, if you want him to come over on an "off" day and forget about his other customers. And since those thing don't happen, you don't perceive them as bribes now, do you. twansenne wrote: True, most host (at least good ones) could accept tips, and not bump people. But it is about the perception that someone else might think that if you tip the KJ you get "special" treatment. Exactly. Perception. You have the perception that simply accepting a gratuity is instantly perceived as a bribe. I do not believe that is the case as you illustrated for me above. If you don't give people the perception of taking bribes, they won't be viewed as bribes when offered. Hey look. If you guys don't want to accept a $20 when someone says "Thanks! Great Job", that's your prerogative. I'm running a business. I'm taking the money. 
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:41 pm |
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When a waitress or waiter brings me my check at the end of the night, they place it down on the table inside of a nice black leather "wallet" of sorts. Then they politely walk away after saying something like: "thanks for coming and I'll take that whenever you're ready.
They do NOT plop down a TIP JAR right down next to it.
You didn't say that Abraham Lincoln($5) determined your rotation after 1:30. You said Andrew Jackson($20) did. I wonder how your bar owner would feel if people started telling him that they spent their last $5 to buy a chance to sing a song instead of buying another drink?
Should you work for free? Of course not. I admire you for going over a few extra minutes to finish the last rotation. I would just break down the equipment when that rotation was over unless the BAR paid me to stay over time. If you closed down your show a few times when the place was packed at 1:30AM, and that caused a bar full of people to leave; that would get back to the owner very quickly and he would realize that not paying you for that last hour was costing him money.
Pointing out to your audience that the bar owner is too cheap to pay you after 1:30 will eventually backfire. Announcing that you will let people sing if they pay you will offend the people that would have been next to sing if you followed the original rotation. You are discriminating against the people who don't think that they should have to bribe their way into getting to sing another song. I'd rather support the bar by buying another drink than pay to sing another song. The people that you dismiss might not say a word to you about it but they may just not come as often in the future. I know I would avoid that situation.
There was a KJ around here that had a tendency to skip people in order to get the pretty ladies, that he was trying to pick up, up on stage more often. I first went up to the KJ and pointed out that certain people had sung twice already and I hadn't sung at all. I asked him if he had lost my slip and he said: "No. your slip is right here". I told him that it was messed up that he was letting people sing out of turn and this is what he said to me. "What are you gonna do about it? Get me fired?"
Well, I had known the bar owner for over 25 years and told him what had happened. Guess what? They had a new KJ the following week.
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ripman8
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:03 pm |
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TopherM wrote: Quote: As to Andrew Jackson determining who sings next.... I would never pay to get to sing another song. I typically spend about 40 to 50 dollars at a show between drinks and food. After I leave the bartender and waitress their tips, you think that you desrve a 40% rip on top of that to let someone sing another song??? You have it all wrong, at least in my case. I don't BEG or DEMAND tips, the singers BEG and DEMAND that I stay after my show is over. I don't feel like I deserve anything beyond my market value, but 9 times out of 10, the singers happily WANT to pay me to work after my show is over. The singers are twisting my arm, not the other way around. The bar will absolutely not pay me after 1:30, no matter how packed the place is, and it usually is. They are kinda silly not to, because the bar clears out as soon as I start packing up, even though it's open until 3:00. I tell the bar owner that $35.00 extra buys me until 2:30, but he's only taken that option once in the last 2+ years since the bar has been open until 3:00. I don't prostitute myself or do anything in the least bit scrupulous, as others have suggested. Simply, my show is over at 1:30. I typically stay until about 1:45-1:50 just to make sure all of the regulars get their last songs in, and I do that because the regulars respect it and it's good for long term business. I remember being a singer and going to shows where the KJ begs for tips between every song, and it turned me off BIG TIME. I have never once in almost 9 years as a KJ asked for a tip..... but I certainly accept them! I don't ask for tips, I simply state at 1:30ish when I'm done that my show is over, and if a singer asks why I can't stay, I tell them that it is because the bar only pays me until 1:30. If the singers then want to pay for the last hour, I am more than happy to stay. I don't have to beg anyone for anything, they freely ask me if they can pay for the last hour. Nothing funny going on there, IMO. I don't ask for or demand tips, I simply work until I am no longer being paid, then I go home, be it 1:30 or 2:45. So, yes. If you come up to me at 2:00, after my show is over, and want to sing, then I'm going to say no, because my show is over. If you ask why So-and-So got to sing, I'm going to tell you it's because he gave me $5.00 to do one more song. You don't have to tip me, you certainly have the choice, but if you want to participate in after hours karaoke, it is no longer free just because you think you somehow deserve it. The bar pays for your karaoke entertainment until 1:30, after that, it's funded by the singers. P.S., if you do happily work for free, let me know. You can run my karaoke gig and I'll just sit back and watch, then I'll collect the $$$ at the end of the night.  I'd give you two likes if I could. Whoever works for free should be complimented. And if they don't want to go on for free OR for pay, they aren't a-holes or jerks. And if the bar is willing, and the patrons want to pay, how is that morally wrong? C'mon MAN!
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twansenne
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:22 pm |
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TopherM wrote: <<<SNIPPED>>>> I don't ask for tips, I simply state at 1:30ish when I'm done that my show is over, and if a singer asks why I can't stay, I tell them that it is because the bar only pays me until 1:30. If the singers then want to pay for the last hour, I am more than happy to stay. I don't have to beg anyone for anything, they freely ask me if they can pay for the last hour. Nothing funny going on there, IMO. I don't ask for or demand tips, I simply work until I am no longer being paid, then I go home, be it 1:30 or 2:45. So, yes. If you come up to me at 2:00, after my show is over, and want to sing, then I'm going to say no, because my show is over. If you ask why So-and-So got to sing, I'm going to tell you it's because he gave me $5.00 to do one more song. You don't have to tip me, you certainly have the choice, but if you want to participate in after hours karaoke, it is no longer free just because you think you somehow deserve it. The bar pays for your karaoke entertainment until 1:30, after that, it's funded by the singers. P.S., if you do happily work for free, let me know. You can run my karaoke gig and I'll just sit back and watch, then I'll collect the $$$ at the end of the night. The $5 (or whatever amount) given "after hours" is not a TIP for a "good job". That is someone paying you for Karaoke service from 1:30 to 1:35,just like the bar owner pays you X amount for karaoke from 9:00 to 1:30. Apples and Oranges. So if someone tips you a $20 at midnight, do you continue to play (assuming $1/minute OT) an extra 20 minutes after normal stopping time? And is only the tipper allowed sing?
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johnny reverb
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:39 pm |
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Vince Prince wrote: I used to put out a tip jar, but don't anymore because I had problems with it. I had too many people trying to use their tips as bribes and I got tired of having the following argument:
TIPPER: "What do you mean I can't go up next? I dropped $20 in your tip jar!"
ME: "Yes, and I appreciate your tip, but I still can't move you up in the rotation."
TIPPER: "But you still accepted my money! The least you can do is let me sing my song and get it out the way!"
ME: "I'm sorry, but I don't bump people up in the list. I appreciate your tip, but tips don't get people bumped up."
TIPPER: "What's the problem? Did I not put enough in there? Come on man! What's your price? I know your job is all about money. You're not doing this for your health. Come on... I know the game. What do I need to put in there so you'll let me sing now. You need another $20? Let me know, I got you covered."
ME: "No, thank you. It's not about the money for me. It's about being fair to everyone on the list."
TIPPER: "Bullshit dude! Don't feed me that crap! It IS about money or you wouldn't be here! Now come on and give me your price so I can sing my song!"
I really had that stupid conversation quite a few times here which lead me to do away with the whole tip jar here.
There have still been very nice people who have tipped me even without the jar because they appreciate me, but I just don't advertise tipping anymore because of my own experience with it. Hasn't been good. I don't see anywhere, that you told the guy to take his twenty back.... ....besides, you make so much from the royalties on Thriller....you don't need the tips..... 
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:41 pm |
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let's say you get 10 people that come up at the same time with their dead presidents. How do you determine who goes first, second, third, etc.? The best president? The prettiest one? The sluttiest one? Your closest friend? Names in a hat?
I've seen KJs pass a hat around to stay later but they kept the existing rotation in order.
I've also been at bars, ONCE, where the KJ made it clear that money talks and BS walks.
There are good and bad shows out there. I guess it's up to the indiividual to find a show that suits their needs. I just think that karaoke should be fair for EVERYONE at the show. It shouldn't be MORE FAIR to the people who may have more disposable income than someone else at the bar. The way you discribe your situation is that if someone paid you enough, They could take over that last hour and put on a concert and no one else would get to sing because someone bought the entire hour. My guess would be that there wouldn't be many people hanging around for that.
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johnny reverb
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:42 pm |
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ripman8 wrote: johnny reverb wrote: As a singer, dollar for every song I sing, or 5 bucks for the night. "That's if" you don't make me sound like sh!t, make me have to scream into the mic to overcome a bad mix, walk away as I start(too early to insure good mix)....skip me, or stick singers that just came in before me........now if you consider that a bribe.......  Johnny is the kind of singer that will test you. Just your patience.......
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BruceFan4Life
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:54 pm |
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This whole situation about how MONEY TALKS is very prevalent in out society; even in another area of karaoke. The dreaded Karaoke Contests that are judged solely on audience applause. It would be like judging a karaoke contest and the only criteria is how many facebook friends you have. The off key singer with lots of drinking buddies wins over the gal who sings like an angel but doesn't have many friends that follow her around to karaoke bars. In my pinion, it's no different than the guy with a great job who is willing to pay to hear his girlfriend sing and the girl with a minimum wage job who can't afford that extra $5 to sing another song.
The rotation should be the rotation. Pass the hat and continue with the rotation as it was. No guarantees to anyone for making a donation. If people are enjoying the show, they should be willing to keep the show as is. If they want to buy spots in the rotation, they should hire you to do a private party for them and then you can make some real money.
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johnny reverb
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:03 pm |
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I don't want to name anybody in particular.... but has anyone every offered a singer a bribe.....to leave & go to his enemy's show?......
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Alex
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:57 am |
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 Johnny  I do have a tip jar out (it actually was a gift from my regulars, the P.I.M.P. cup ). All my regulars know that I run an absolute fair rotation and I NEVER accept bribes. But tips are appreciated. On my best night I made $460 in tips, why would I not want to have that!? Now given, that night was an exception. But if you make about $10-$20 extra a show it adds up. That's about $200-$400 extra a month if you work 5 nights a week. At first I was uncomfortable with having a tip jar out. But ... don't laugh ... my mom said why wouldn't you put a tip jar out? As long as you don't announce/solicit tips on the mic AND don't accept bribes there should be no problem with it. And she was right. And yes, I had people waving a hundred dollar bill in my face, but I politely declined with the comment that my reputation of running a fair rotation is worth more than any dollar amount to me, sorry. The only time I accepted a bribe was when a drunk guy gave me a $100 to let his girlfriend sing next. She was next anyway... I use Compuhost and announce the next 5 singers on the screen, my regulars got a good laugh out of that.
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ripman8
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:47 am |
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johnny reverb wrote: I don't want to name anybody in particular.... but has anyone every offered a singer a bribe.....to leave & go to his enemy's show?...... Who said I ever did that??
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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:55 am |
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johnny reverb wrote: Vince Prince wrote: I used to put out a tip jar, but don't anymore because I had problems with it. I had too many people trying to use their tips as bribes and I got tired of having the following argument:
TIPPER: "What do you mean I can't go up next? I dropped $20 in your tip jar!"
ME: "Yes, and I appreciate your tip, but I still can't move you up in the rotation."
TIPPER: "But you still accepted my money! The least you can do is let me sing my song and get it out the way!"
ME: "I'm sorry, but I don't bump people up in the list. I appreciate your tip, but tips don't get people bumped up."
TIPPER: "What's the problem? Did I not put enough in there? Come on man! What's your price? I know your job is all about money. You're not doing this for your health. Come on... I know the game. What do I need to put in there so you'll let me sing now. You need another $20? Let me know, I got you covered."
ME: "No, thank you. It's not about the money for me. It's about being fair to everyone on the list."
TIPPER: "Bullshit dude! Don't feed me that crap! It IS about money or you wouldn't be here! Now come on and give me your price so I can sing my song!"
I really had that stupid conversation quite a few times here which lead me to do away with the whole tip jar here.
There have still been very nice people who have tipped me even without the jar because they appreciate me, but I just don't advertise tipping anymore because of my own experience with it. Hasn't been good. I don't see anywhere, that you told the guy to take his twenty back.... ....besides, you make so much from the royalties on Thriller....you don't need the tips..... Was thinking the same thing. I will and have given people their tip back if they expected it would get them moved up. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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johnny reverb
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:20 am |
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Lonman wrote: johnny reverb wrote: Vince Prince wrote: I used to put out a tip jar, but don't anymore because I had problems with it. I had too many people trying to use their tips as bribes and I got tired of having the following argument:
TIPPER: "What do you mean I can't go up next? I dropped $20 in your tip jar!"
ME: "Yes, and I appreciate your tip, but I still can't move you up in the rotation."
TIPPER: "But you still accepted my money! The least you can do is let me sing my song and get it out the way!"
ME: "I'm sorry, but I don't bump people up in the list. I appreciate your tip, but tips don't get people bumped up."
TIPPER: "What's the problem? Did I not put enough in there? Come on man! What's your price? I know your job is all about money. You're not doing this for your health. Come on... I know the game. What do I need to put in there so you'll let me sing now. You need another $20? Let me know, I got you covered."
ME: "No, thank you. It's not about the money for me. It's about being fair to everyone on the list."
TIPPER: "Bullshit dude! Don't feed me that crap! It IS about money or you wouldn't be here! Now come on and give me your price so I can sing my song!"
I really had that stupid conversation quite a few times here which lead me to do away with the whole tip jar here.
There have still been very nice people who have tipped me even without the jar because they appreciate me, but I just don't advertise tipping anymore because of my own experience with it. Hasn't been good. I don't see anywhere, that you told the guy to take his twenty back.... ....besides, you make so much from the royalties on Thriller....you don't need the tips..... Was thinking the same thing. I will and have given people their tip back if they expected it would get them moved up. About the "Thriller" thing too?....I hope.....
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karaoke koyote
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:42 pm |
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Just to add to the thread, because, I do not have a tip jar... BUT people have tried to bribe me to go next in line. Many, many times.... and I've had that "what's your price" conversation many times. Now, I remember one time getting into it with a guy over just that same thing... and was actually having a bit of fun with him, because he kept trying to bribe me to go next.... now here's the thing... he actually was already next! Sooooo.... the singer finishes and he says, "Alright dude, $50" and held up a of 50. I shrugged and said, "Alright, you're next." he tossed the 50 on my table and took the mic. I simply chuckled, and didn't say a word... you better believe I took it, and didn't bat an eye.
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spotlightjr
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:44 am |
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I think it's pretty lame for anyone on here to criticize a host for putting out a tip jar. It's a personal choice. I've been doing it since I started and have had no problems with regulars thinking I'm being bribed, etc.
Nobody knows how much the karaoke host is making that night. Hell, he could be working for tips only. Now. I'm not insinuating that's anyone else's problem but his. However, if people are having a great time and the host is doing his job and they wanna slide him a little money who cares?
At the beginning of every show after announcing the bartenders and servers names I quickly let everyone know that I accept tips for a job well done and encourage the same for the staff. Sure, I've had people try and bribe me to move up in rotation but it's never turned into an argument, etc. Even without a tip jar, people will try to bribe you. It's human nature.
If a tip jar offends you that bad then I suggest you go to another show. Almost every local band, guitarist, piano player, etc have tip jars. It's a part of the music scene. If an extra five bucks is gonna make or break you then perhaps you should've stayed home
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Brian A
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am |
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spotlightjr wrote: Sure, I've had people try and bribe me to move up in rotation but it's never turned into an argument, etc. Even without a tip jar, people will try to bribe you. From the content of this 'vague' statement, the way it was worded - does that mean you accept bribes too since "it's never turned into an argument"? Just sayin'..........
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spotlightjr
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:09 pm |
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I didn't know you were an attorney as well as a karaoke host. Nope, never took a bribe and never really had a problem with somebody that offered it. After I explain my policy about a strict rotation, most if not all people understand. Once in a while, you may get a guy pleading, etc. but it's rare. It's also in my books and I usually make an announcement when we are slammed about me being thankful for everyone's patience, etc.
It's only an issue if you make it an issue. I find it very similar to the guy or gal that walks in while I'm breaking down and asks me to sing. I simply tell them that I've already shut down and tell them our show times and be sure to get here earlier next week because I would love to hear them sing. If they persist I apologize and offer them a good evening. it's really that simple. Kill them with kindness and they will submit.
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leopard lizard
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:45 pm |
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A tip and a bribe are two different things.
I used to put out a tip jar at a venue where the owner had trouble parting with his money just to cover my rear. But at the places I am now where they pay honorably I feel I have been fairly compensated and don't bring the jar.
But---I still get a few tips here and there. Most are at the end of the show or as the people are leaving. If a person feels that they have paid for their drinks and that is all they owe for the karaoke service then that's fair, don't leave a tip. But if someone wants to show appreciation for an especially good time or extra service (like Birthday Decorations/favors) then all I can say is I appreciate you right back, thank you.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:51 pm |
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no right or wrong answer, i just feel that if the bartenders can take home $100+ a night in tips, most of which is from a 30 second or less opening a beer bottle, and we all make sure to remind people to take care of their servers (tips) then it should not be wrong for us to accept as well. just like the bartenders dont remind anyone they take tips, i don't remind anyone that i do. i remind them to tip their servers and the singers will at breaks in the songs at times through the night remind everyone that i take them as well.
bartenders, wait staff, poker dealers, pizza delivery, dj's all take them and no one thinks twice about it.
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Brian A
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:24 am |
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leopard lizard wrote: A tip and a bribe are two different things. Exactly! As I said before, a tip is to show appreciation for services rendered without expecting anything in return. It’s a way of saying ‘thank you’ for an excellent job! A bribe, however, is something offered to a person (kj) to attempt to influence the rotation & secure an advantage favorable to that person providing the bribe. I will accept tips (which go toward purchase of new songs). I will never ever under any circumstances accept a bribe. Not only would that be dishonest, it’s also not fair to others.
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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!
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