Karaoke Forums

So they allow it, now how are they going to prove that the kj using a computer is completely legit - take their word for it?
How does one differentiate one who steals, over one who owns the discs but ripped them? No matter what they are going to have to do some kind of a verification of some sort. Or just say screw it, smoothedge thinks we should stop this, let everyone steal our material from here on out because without these pointless audits, we cannot distinguish between the two.
I personally hope EVERY manu jumps on the audit bandwagon - ie prove you own every song that is in the computer either by original discs and/or any download receipt - and it has to be from a 'legit' manu authorized download site. Would sure make things better in the kj world, pushing out those that want to half (@$%&#!) it to begin with over those who want to keep it a lucrative business - like it used to be.

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Common Lonman there is no way the venues are going to set down and audit every host, they don't have the time money or will to do it. Let's say you are interviewing hosts to work at the venue, you are going to check each and everyone. By the time you get done you won't need them anymore. The simplest way to solve the problem since 95% of the product out here according to James is stolen, is just issue a SC license, allowing the host to shift without an audit. All the host would have to show to the venue owner is the license, plain an simple. Since SC is the only label fighting the shifting of product, you would only need a license from them. If you don't want to pay for the SC license, don't use the product. Everyone would be happy and we could all get back to work. Have a nice day.

Never once said anything about a venue auditing a host, I was talking the manu's.

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All they would have to do is keep records of who buys what. If you buy a download there is a record of it. They could do, and should have done from the start, the same thing with CDGs. Do you realize, if all the karaoke outlets, like karaoke.com, and ace karaoke were to have kept records of all disc sales, then sent a copy of those records to each mfr, EVERY disc could be accounted for that has ever been sold and to whom it was sold. Now, if an inspector comes in, all you have to do is show him your id. Through that he could find out exactly what discs you own by going back to the mfr in question. No audit necessary, no extra fees. Everything is accounted for. This is something that could have been developed over the last 20 years and would DESTROY piracy. If you have illegit tracks you get sued. This could have prevented the whole problem from the start. All mfrs could be part of it at no expense to us. You would also know who the real KJs are.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

What about all those discs sold through used sources, no records of those - I buy and sell used discs all the time. Are you suggesting everyone that buys or sells used discs need to start reporting their sales? Ok! I'm game.
But that isn't going to account for everything.
But even the retailers having to log records and receipts won't prove anything as to what a kj might have in their collection. Poeple give kj's discs - I have maybe 20-30 discs that were given to me as gifts, some were just left on my desk with a nice thank you card. Some let me know who they were. I have some discs people accidently left after singing and never came back to pick them up.
So how are we supposed to account for all those situation.
Nope, audit by the manu is the only way.

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Well, well, well. One says it's game over and SC has lost. I could have said the same thing in November 1941, afterall Europe was lost except for Britain, then Dec 7th happened. Well now there is an international coaliton of police forces that have began to fight. They're not at our level (but maybe they are). But I could say that about crime itself. It continues so why do anything to stop it.

Another says the manufacturer should pay us because their logo is displayed. Maybe I should write Ford a letter stating since I am driving their car and their logo is plastered over it, they should pay me an advertising fee. I won't hold my breath while waiting for my cheque.

And lastly the old "leave us alone". They would if everyone is honest. The problem is not everyone is. How many people have come on here looking for free or cheap music. Smooth, you know one of your first posts, if not the first, was exactly this. In the words of Ronald Reagan, "Trust but verify". They know the product is being stolen by seeing the sales figures do not match the number of hosts out there. It the same way clothing designers, Rolex and other companies know they are being ripped off.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Audit by Mfr is the ONLY way YOU can see it working because you are a corporate sheeple. You believe that the mfrs SHOULD have all the power over the industry. That is no better than full government control. It is VERY foolish to allow such a thing.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Hmmm, does Armani come and audit your clothes?? Does Rolex come and audit your watch collection?? No. Case closed. Thanks.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

The other manus have no interest in joining SC or they would have done so a long time ago. True you said nothing in your last post about venues auditing hosts. I do remember at one time it was floated as an idea that venues could check their hosts, as far a disc content. It would not be a practical solution either is what I meant to say. A simple license for shifting SC material minus the audit, is still the easiest way to get money back to SC. It would also be the easiest thing to check for, in regards to a venue determining the host has paid something and SC would not be coming after them. Sorry for the foul up.

It is because audit by manufacturer is the only option out there. There should be an association or government agency to do audits on all commercially used music to ensure that the music used is paid for and a shift is legitimate. Would THAT make you happy. Of course they would have to charge for the work. In Canada we have AVLA that just does that (with the exception of karaoke because of the sync licence). Only it is not a one time fee. It is a yearly fee of $331.00 + tax. Is that what you would prefer? Or maybe ProDub in the UK where if you had 5-10,000 songs you'd have to shell out about $500.00. In other words, no matter how it is done, it is going to cost you.

The second figure is for karaoke and is in Pounds

No. of units £ excl VAT £ excl VAT
1 to 1,000 * 85.11 102.13
1 to 5,000 212.77 255.32
5,001 to 10,000 255.32 306.38
10,001 to 15,000 297.87 357.45
15,001 to 20,000 340.42 408.51
Over 20,000 pro rata top tier pro rata top tier
5.3 Licence Fees are expressed exclusive of any VAT payable unless otherwise
stated.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Only one problem SC isn't a country, it is no longer a manufacturing company, at least until it makes new product. Rolex and clothing designers are still making product. So what is SC, a company whose core business currently is legal litigation. How are they doing as a company? 95% of their old product is stolen material, they probably are generating 5% of their former income by leasing their old product as the GEM series. Money is the sinews of War, with little money coming in and their legal fees mounting, and money being wasted on dismissed cases. The question is how long can they continue a war that is draining them financially, and is killing the brand with their potential customer base? They can't sell to those who have already bought or refuse to buy the tainted brand. So the only course open to them is try and leverage the hosts that have been using the product into leasing their GEM series. I don't think they have enough time left to make the legal process earn them enough to keep going like they are. It is only a matter of time before they implode, sometime next year, just like CB.

No I believe they should be able to get proper pay for their product, and if auditing the kj's to find out if they have the actual product or just another lowlife scum that stole or bought a loaded drive is the only way to determine who is legit or not, then so be it - I plan on doing one with Digitrax for my Chartbuster library as soon as I get more info. I am talking mostly the true pirates - which is what started the reasoning for the audits in the first place. But even when they gave all kj's a chance for free audits, only a handful came up to the plate - I didn't even take advantage of it at that time.

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The other manus may or may not have any interest at this time. Doesn't mean it won't/can't change in the future.

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I agree there needs to be a central entity that covers ALL karaoke manus - 1 audit - done, included in the licensing, the kj pays into yearly (just like an actual license). The manus need to be members - kind of like an ascap for karaoke only, then when the yearly licensing fees are paid, they disbursed to all the manus. But this would still only cover songs you actually own on disc or have verifiable receipts from manu authorized download sites. Not downloaded from p2p sites, or pre-loaded drives.

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Lonnie, exactly but some people don't want to pay no matter what. I wish AVLA could do it for karaoke and that would go a long way. You go into a bar, the manager asks for your licence (if PC based) and Bob's your uncle. OBDs would obviously won't need this.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Why a yearly renewal?? Our drivers license down here is good for ten years. You don't need to pay every year. That is too much to ask.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

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WTF are you laughing at??

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Our DL are good for 5 years - big deal? Not talking driving. In almost every aspect of all businesses, there are annual licenses that need to be purchased or updated for something - this would be no different .
A smaller yearly fee would go a long way over a larger 5 year fee. But it would still have to be worth it to all manus involved.

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Whatever. it will never happen, so it doesn't really matter. One day SC will be finished and this will all go away, and so will you cheerleaders, who are CLEARLY the minority.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE