Karaoke Forums

Where the burden belongs the party starting the action has to prove it's case, the bar is set lower, however in a civil trial. Like you have said many times James you are not seeking criminal penalties, only compensation for your clients. According to the three Florida trials, one host beat the wrap, and two venues were forced to pay the fair retail value of the product. Hardly worth the trouble of SC going to court. Have a nice day.

It is very easy to get caught up in the rules and regulations to the point where you destroy all the fun and joy in life Timberlea. I don't think many of us living today would enjoy living in strictly enforced codified society of the past say ancient Sparta or Rome. True Rome ruled a vast empire for centuries, but the reaction to it's over ordered society was the chaos of the Dark Ages. Karaoke is not a straight jacket, it is a business, which in my opinion is an means of artistic expression as well. We all need to a certain extent express ourselves artistically. Also hosts have to have the freedom to run their business, without all of this drama. We all get so caught up in issues over the music property, we forget it is just part of the equation when dealing with successful, professional karaoke hosting. I still after all this time think an operator's license would be the best solution to the piracy problem. That will never happen since the manus themselves cannot agree and come together on even the Cloud Service. Smoothedge speaks from the heart, you need both head and heart to make it in this business. You can't have one without the other. To me the manus trying to reign in the hosts and have them pay for their own mistakes, seems unfair. We are all going to keep fighting over the money until no one is making anything, and we will destroy, what everyone wants to save. Much like this country going over the fiscal cliff. I guess we are all on the highway to hell. I think I will get off this ride when my stop comes up. Have a nice day.

Add to that: The un-named investigator somehow disappears with any alleged documentation, The unknown person ends up being someone who never worked the venue, or who hasn't worked the venue for a long time prior to the alleged "witnessing", on a time and date when there was no karaoke, hence no way to witness whether or not said track was played from what sort of media.

Please note that I did not add IMHO. This has actually happened- my guess is because someone read an out of date website and never visited the venue. Of course, this was some time ago, and I am sure that it's all fixed now.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Oh Yeah, I'm SUUUUURE it's all fixed!!! RIIIIIIIIIGHT!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I have to agree with Smooth on one thing. I own about 30+ SC discs. I use them because I am OMD-based, with the added luxury of knowing that SC KNOWS I'm OMD based. If I were a PC host, I would never play their tracks.

For those who disagree, please note that SC's label has all but disappeared in my area. Not just because of true ( Track thief) pirates, but MORE because the venues have forbidden SC tracks to be played. Not just by PC KJs, but often by OMD hosts, just "to be on the safe side".
Personally, I have yet to run into a problem using them except in one venue. However, 2 of my host friends ( both OMD based) have been told in no uncertain terms: Play SC discs- even customer discs- and you are gone.


SC is killing their own label.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

i don't know.....every other player in the music / Karaoke industry allows transfer to PC with no audit, fee, or hassle, it would seem that the only one doing otherwise (SC in this case) is the one doing things "improper".

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I remember something in the Bible about "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".

Sound Choice repeatedly broke the rules by putting out material that they did NOT have the rights to sell. The famous SC8125 had to be taken off the Sound Choice shelves...because they got CAUGHT. Had they not been caught red handed and forced to stop selling them; they wold still be selling them today. Have you ever noticed how many Sound Choice discs had to be re-issued because they had songs on them that had to be removed due to licensing issues? It's one of those situations where the Big Company says to it's customers; "do as I say and not as I so".

Hello POT. My name is kettle. You're black. They sell you something that is technically illegal and then they want to tell you what to do with it. Some nerve!

Which proves once again Joe you always kill the thing you love most, besides money in the case of SC. Then again if you kill the label you also kill all future revenue derived from that label. SC's legal process makes little sense, since they will be killing their own label trying to get rid of the pirates. They will burn down their own house to get rid of the roaches. Have a nice day.

They are definitely creating a PR nightmare for themselves. My purchase of their product slowed due to their "disc only" business model which made me choose between buying a disc from them for 20+ for maybe one or two songs and buying the specific two songs for $2 each. That's a no brainer and who among us hasn't had to face that choice whether it's buying files, someone else's disc or custom?

I played their stuff all the way up until I was let go from the bar. Let go due to the hassles they have created by STILL not embracing the modern model and considering anyone that is file based a soft offender or whatever it is and suing over it. And don't start with the audit thing because they are suing people without even attempting to figure out if someone has shifted or they are a pirate. I played their stuff to the end because I firmly and deeply believed I was morally right. Forget IP laws. They are made up by lawyers and producers and the only say the general public has is in their actions in buying and using the "IP". The laws are so convoluted even lawyers can't agree to what they say.

But what this sue first and ask questions later model has done is put a huge black mark on Sound Choice from the bulk of the very people that helped make them. I might well play what I have of theirs today but I'll not buy anything further from them in the current situation and my guess is an extremely large portion of their previous customers feel the same way. Spending money right now to make new stuff would be a huge mistake for them. They first need to repair their image and in a major way and provide a modern way to get the new stuff.
For me to even consider purchasing anything Sound Choice again:
Declare format shifting OK without an audit
Declare backups OK without an audit
Declare pirates not OK and pursue only them
Define HOW they can decide the difference by performing interviews and asking for things like stacks of receipts or a modern pic of stacks of discs (I would have been fine providing either) PRIOR to filing a suit
Provide a means to purchase single tracks in file format. Having a 20, 50 and 100 song discount would be killer.
There are still a bunch of SC tracks I'd love to have. I've been requesting them from KV and they've actually made a few of them.

As an Update on my current situation:
While I am technically not a bar "KJ" any longer we still hold parties in my basement or at friends houses where many of my past "clients" gather for karaoke and I am still actively buying tracks. I've had two places contact me and one actually came to a house party we held to check things out. I'm just not in the mood to go back to the every weekend thing. And I am not in the mood to be looking over my shoulder because of Sound Choice greed. I understand the bar I played in has gone DJ and dance.

The amazing thing is that the cheerleaders refuse to believe stories like yours. So does Harrington. They believe that SC is the end all be all of the karaoke world and they can do no wrong. It's very sad. If their core of cheerleaders would turn away from them MAYBE they would decide their current way is wrong and needs revision. An excellent post, Mr. Boo.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

That is interesting they have gone to a DJ since I'm a KJ/DJ depending on the needs of the venue. They are not only killing their label they are killing the karaoke end of the business, some business model!

Kind of reminds you of the old Simon and Garfunkel song "The Boxer", "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest". There is a lesson to be learned from Mr.Boo in all of this. A host has to keep a line of communication with the venue owner if he wants to keep playing a gig. Lately some of the work thrown to me came about because I don't use or promote SC product. The cheerleaders are much like Republicans they live in their own information bubble and don't really want to know what's happening in the real world. It is Ironic SC's actions have actually helped my business, not in a way they planned, however. Have a Great Day Smooth.

It's ironic that I was let go DUE to opening up communication on this issue.

I am not a good DJ nor do I want to be a good DJ. The people that came to the shows didn't want me to be a good DJ. Me going in a s a DJ would have been a disaster and it wasn't even an option. They were going Juke Box when I spoke with them last and the latest comes from someone who showed up looking for karaoke and tracked me down.

Bottom line Mr.Boo is inadvertently SC's legal process has had the effect, at least at your old gig, of scaring the venue into not wanting to take the risk on karaoke. By their actions they are not only killing their label, but karaoke in general. A plan that is a loser for everyone if multiplied by what happened in your particular situation. My hobby as always been music, and I have taken several classes on the subject, when I was younger a played an instrument in the high school orchestra. Being able to do the DJ also makes my business have an added feature to it. I refuse to do karaoke weddings, but do quite a few DJ ones. Karaoke just doesn't work for me in that type of setting. Being the DJ gives me more control of the show, and it drags less, especially if you have a few less gifted singers in a row. Sounds like the venue is kind of going down hill, anyway if they end up with a Juke Box. Have a Great Day.

I don't post on this subject much anymore, been rehashed enough, nothing changes. I don't support SC's current model. If they end up on the KJMP, I will be real interested in seeing how they handle audits to include those downloads. If it happens and I don't like how they handle it, I will steer clear of buying the SC offerings on the drive. Pity, much of their library is pretty good, hard to argue with that.

Want to continue the undercover op? Do so, but leave those alone that obviously don't have a 100,000 hard drive! Plenty of tell tale signs, unorganized or uncared for books. No books. The "just ask me, I'll have everything". Hosts that have no hosting abilities are more apt to be pirates than not. Go after them! Kill two birds with one stone, attach piracy and quit piszing off the legits. And free audits. Not my fault your product is being pirated, go after them and use that money to pay your auditors, not me! My company doesn't pass those costs along to the customer, we figure it out so we have LOYAL customers!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Bingo Bingo and Bingo. I don't really like to get into it either but the point on SC hurting valid business was something I couldn't pass on. I've been to a show where the guy must of had one of those drives. His book was as big and the IP code book and had pages falling out of it. Reminded me of George Castanza's wallet. There was no way anyone could carry that thing with one hand. Probably was a pirate and maybe he wasn't. But he would have been a guy to take a little closer look at.

I guess I am a cheerleader. Odd thing is I "believe" what MrBoo says just fine. What I don't understand is how someone who is fully aware of SC policies is willing to risk any issues at all by simply ignoring their policies and hoping it won't impact them.

*I* don't care for *how* SC and Kurt go about doing what they are doing, but they have a stated policy for how to use their product. They are very clear about what happens when you follow policy and what could happen if you don't. It really is a simple choice.

Removing all emotion and personal feelings from the mix and looking at it strictly as a business decision there are only three options -

1) Don't use their product

Pros: You save $150 on an audit, no hassles from SC
Cons: Lose access to quality karaoke tracks

2) Use SC product / Ignore SC Policy

Pros: You save $150 on an audit (possibly short term though)
Cons: Run the risk of hitting the SC radar and having to go to option 1 or get and audit or get sued and maybe paying a higher audit fee

3) Use SC product / Adhere to SC policy

Pros: Access to quality karaoke tracks, No future hassles from SC
Cons: Costs $150

No matter what your personal feelings are, it boils down to those three choices. If you feel strongly apposed to SC policies *OR* don't have the $150, then choose Option #1. Anyone choosing Option #2 has no room to complain about losing a gig, getting sued, or wondering if either of those will happen in the future. If you agree with their policies *OR* choose to make a business decision to have access to SC content and feel the $150 is a good investment, then choose Option #3.

-Chris

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-Chris

Chris you are forgetting that is is not just a matter of the host v.s. SC it is also the venue telling the host not to use SC or face dismissal. What happened to Mr. Boo, resulted in the net loss of another karaoke venue, it is gone and a potential paying gig lost to a host. How is that helping the industry as a whole or SC for that matter. More and More hosts will opt for door number 1, or the venues they work for will tell them simply not to use SC. In the end SC will be killing is own brand. The con part of option 1 is not that tragic, and can result in some hosts like myself, getting more work not less. As time goes on more people in the industry will I feel opt for one, and only the certified will do 3. That of course is just my opinion. Have a nice day.

MrBoo doesn't give much in the way of details on his specific scenario. I am not really asking for them either since my 3 Options apply no matter what his scenario is.

If I were in his position, I would have said "I will handle it", paid for and performed an audit, showed the venue the covenant not to sue and the rest of the paperwork, and then been done with it. If the venue still insisted on cutting karaoke, then that is not an SC issue, that is venue owner that is paranoid and quite honestly, ignorant of the facts.

-Chris

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-Chris

Not always a sign of a pirate. My buddy is TERRIBLE with his books. He had 10, and is now down to 1, plus the two small books I made for him of his newer stuff. He's an OMD host (not for any reason other than he isn't much of a computer geek. I told him, whenever he's ready I will help him get set up. )He just can't be bothered with the books. Personally, I would rather work without books, just because it's a nuisance. I don't have any, yet, because I am still working on the damn thing!! I am doing it manually in Excel. But you can't condemn a person as being a pirate just because of his books.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE