Karaoke Forums

How does the track get on the CD in the first place?

The manufacturers would certainly say this if they plan to sell downloads- which is a dream for them.

Think about it: Liability aside, they are selling a product from a source that doesn't even have to be renewable, because it is never depleted. Let's say they sell even 6, 000 downloads a month at a dollar per- and I think that quantity is extremely conservative. Their only real cost is server fees. I mean SERIOUS profit compared to physical media.

As for "all the publishers in the world"- I'm pretty sure that they haven't weighed in yet.

I an CERTAINLY not "siding" with SC for any purpose, and I don't think anyone here could seriously believe that.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I have no difficulty. Timberlea, please note the part of your post that I have emboldened. Danny G has a similar statement in his sig line, and both contain a huge flaw:

A factory retains it's masters, but it also manufactures the copies in it's factory, making those copies factory originals as well.. When they sell one of those discs it leaves the factory to end up in the hands of the end user- a factory original disc ( or card, or flash, or whatever came from the factory).

When a downloader accesses the data in a site file. and a copy of that data is transmitted to his PC where a new file is created, the factory original is retained. Whatever was at the factory STAYS at the factory. The new file is a creation of the downloader, and thus most of the burden or liability is his.

Does the factory retain the original after a download? Yes. Did the factory have anything to do with the creation of the new file? No. Allowing access to the data has nothing to do with the file created by the downloader.

Therefore the new file cannot be factory original.

Again, speaking of a physical originall. This seems to be the major misunderstanding with my posts.

As for the legal definitions: Just because no one has gone hog wild with suits regarding downloads does not mean that the legalities have been ironed out and set in stone.

All of my posts have been to alert toward the POSSIBILITY of legal problems with their use, NOT to say that such suits are forthcoming or even probable.

To repeat a repetition: 5 or 6 years ago no one would have believed that a karaoke company would even consider doing what SC is doing, yet here we are. From that I have learned that ANYTHING is possible, whether probable or not.

Limiting even POSSIBLE liability is a priority in running a business.

This isn't an SC thing- I don't even think they are currently offering downloads. It's just business.

What I am trying to encourage here is only thinking before one acts for business purposes.. I don't care about the results of those thoughts and whether one downloads or not. Nothing to do with me. I gain or lose nothing no matter what the KJ decides.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

this is the part i am debating, this is just not true. acording to HFA.....

"Permanent Digital Downloads

A permanent digital download (PDD) is each individual delivery of a phonorecord by digital transmission of a sound recording (embodying a musical composition) resulting in a reproduction made by or for the recipient which may be retained and played by the recipient on a permanent basis. PDDs are sometimes referred to as full downloads or untethered downloads.

Songfile is a simple and fast way to obtain mechanical licenses for a limited number of physical recordings (CDs, cassettes and vinyl only) made and distributed in the U.S., as well as Ringtones, Permanent Digital Downloads ("PDDs") of singles, and Interactive Streams (often referred to as "on demand streams").

Songfile may be used to license up to 2,500 units (copies) of a song, for physical recordings, ringtones, and Permanent Digital Downloads (“PDDs”). If you are distributing more than 2,500 units of physical product or downloads, please set up an HFA Licensing Account. Information on how to do this can be found here."

they along with the publishers they license for (including the big 4) all put digital downloads as a proper distribution method, as does the federal copyright office and covers it through DART registration.
everything says that the statement that downloads are not originals is false.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The factory retains the original when a CD or even Vinyl is pressed as well. This is irrelevant.



Of course they did. They employed a known download protocol/method which creates a reliable, error free, exact copy of the original without user intervention. Just as a CD press makes an exact copy of the master file.



This is where you go off the rails. You have this assumption that the purchaser/downloader somehow has a hand in "creating" something from nothing. They do not. They are simply the recipient of the copy, just as you are the recipient of a copy when you get a CD in the mail. The only difference is the delivery method.

Using your logic, if the factory made the copy first in the "factory" then emailed it you you, this would be "factory original", yet there technically is no difference.

There is one thing that has not been considered in this thread which is digital watermarking.

It is technically possible for <insert name of karaoke download site here> to digitally watermark downloads and effectively give them a serial number which is tied to the account that was used to download it. This would allow for tracking and inventory.

This would actually result in files that at a bit level may be unique, but from an A/V perspective, completely identical according to the human ear.

There is actually a case before the courts now about the reselling of digital files -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19842851

This would be a perfect case for also digitally watermarking the files.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

I agree. It was brought up as a suggestion at the karaoke summit and I thought the idea was great. It seems the rest of the industry buried the idea. Probably explains why we never saw the full video of the summit after the fact. I watched it live and I know I saw it.

There are some great solutions to these problems. They're just not using them.

OK, I agree with Ron White. Enjoy.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

That explains it!

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!