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So why not just sue all media shifters! You have the winning hand by telling everyone they can not shift SC's logo. If they have they get sued into oblivion. Case closed. No need for a trial, if it's been shifted then it's illegal. Why jump through all the hoops just have one rule!


Kinda like the cops....You were doing 75 in a 70 zone here's you ticket, no questions asked, no trial needed, just pay the fine and don't do it again.

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

Because the problem isn't "just one rule."

In the hierarchy of things that SC cares about, piracy is at the top because that means that no money has flowed to SC despite the use of its product to make money.

SC prefers that people play from original discs, but if they want to play otherwise, they need to follow all of the rules for doing so. SC cares about that a great deal, but if you do so on a 1:1 basis, it is less troublesome than the "pure pirate" scenario because at least you have purchased product.

The problem is that differentiating the "pure pirate"--i.e., the person who is using tracks they have not legitimately purchase--from the person who is 1:1 but isn't following the other rules--the "technical infringer"--is impossible without an inspection of the discs and hard drive, which we cannot do without permission or a legal mechanism, such as a lawsuit.

We do not ask for permission because the usual result of doing so is that the evidence gets destroyed. If "technical infringers" were more common--they're actually kind of rare--then we would consider doing it a different way.

If there is any message for system owners in the verdict in Panama City, it is this: Follow the media-shifting policy or face problems. The smart move is to get legal and get certified.

Here we go again.... "SCbabble..."


Right.... There are dozens of rules.... and they're made up as you go along.


Baloney. SC would much prefer that you play from a computer and pay the $150 "audit fee" and sign an agreement as well as purchase the product. (cha-ching)


This is nothing more than a justification to sue EVERYONE. We know what a pirate is and there has never been any dispute about SC suing them. The problem is your newly invented class of "technical infringer." These are the ones you want to simply pay you a fee and it's evident because if you truly wanted KJ's to use discs, you'd place a restriction that these "technical infringers" would have to re-rip their library at a 320 bitrate.... But you don't do that do you? Of course not - so don't try to bullsh*t us into thinking it has anything to do with "quality of your product" because it doesn't.

Has SC EVER received a request from a KJ prior to using a computer and granted permission with less than an audit? Of course they have. However that's not the preferred method. SC usually advises the prospective KJ to "first violate our 'rules' by ripping your library, then call us... and have money ready." You can put the artificial altruistic attitude on the shelf anytime.



You do not ask for permission because you have no proof of theft to start with and you can make more money by filing mass lawsuits. Your "technical infringer" angle is nothing more than an excuse to make money by intimidation.

It's a trolling operation and that's all it is.

1) If this is true I would have to question why the GEM series was produced in MP3 format specifically for easy transfer to PC- and SC selling point.


2) You might advise someone to become COMPLIANT to SC's wishes, but no one is pressing criminal (legal) charges. The words "compliant" and "legal" are being incorrectly interchanged- again.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Food for thought: Could the use of the term "legal" in this scenario bear out to be libelous, given the specific implications it has? Not to mention that there are THREE positions to consider here: legal, illegal and NONLEGAL...

"Food for thought: Could the use of the term "legal" in this scenario bear out to be libelous, given the specific implications it has? Not to mention that there are THREE positions to consider here: legal, illegal and NONLEGAL..."

vocabulary.com lists
******nonlegal
1
adj not regulated or sanctioned by law

Synonyms:
extralegal

illegal

vocabulary.com lists
******legal
1
adj established by or founded upon law or official or accepted rules

Synonyms
lawful
conformable to or allowed by law
court-ordered
ordered by a court of law
judicial
decreed by or proceeding from a court of justice
jural, juristic
of or relating to law or to legal rights and obligations
lawful, legitimate, licit
authorized, sanctioned by, or in accordance with law
ratified, sanctioned
formally approved and invested with legal authority
statutory
prescribed or authorized by or punishable under a statute
sub judice
before a judge or court of law; awaiting judicial determination
legitimate
of marriages and offspring; recognized as lawful

so nonlegal IS illegal

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Then where is your proof of either "illegal" or "non-legal?"

Here's your problem, you think you can have it both ways:

#1. call it "illegal" or "non-legal" or even "criminal" if you like on one hand and then,

#2. claim it's not actionable if you make a copy (until you "use it commercially")

#3. SC demands discovery of tracks (see #2 above) not "witnessed" in commercial use, but wants to claim it as "non-legal." (see #1 above)

#4. SC claims that an erased HD constitutes "spoliation of evidence" (see #1) of a commercially non-witnessed, non-actionable copy (see #2)

So it appears that it's only "illegal, non-authorized, etc." whenever SC decides it is...

How whip-lashingly, convenient...

it is not legal(illegal, non-legal) to media shift for commercial purposes. This has been determined by a court of law.

If you wish to convert your files and play from a computerized system you must get permission from the trademark owners...another fact ruled on by a court of law.

A business owner (host or venue) are held to be responsible to educate themselves. They are held to a higher level of responsibility.......another fact decided in a court of law.

People really should read the cases that have rulings...they still may not agree but at least they would know what the courts have upheld as law.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Of course, in the case of some who do not enforce their trademarks there is no consequence in shifting, for example Top Tunes. Nobody id enforcing that trademark. Even SGB, when CB held it, there was no problem with shifting them because CB wasn't enforcing it. I was told that personally from Gretchen at CB. As a matter of fact, I think I will e-mail her again, since it seems she works at Digitrax and see if that is still the case. Sound Choice and Piracy Recovery are the ONLY ones pushing this issue. Nobody else is.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

"Law?" Care to point out the "law" and not simply a single case? Remember, just because one court in Florida district says one thing, it isn't "law" and it may not necessarily be upheld in any other federal district.

Otherwise, this would mean that the whole Las Vegas and Arizona suits should be sewed pretty quickly right?

I'll get an extra BIG popcorn...... this could take a while.

Ok...so my statement has been picked apart...thank you for the attention. If there is a term better than NONLEGAL to describe the gray area that so much of this falls in, please feel free to share it with me.

The definition of NONLEGAL that says not sanctioned by law is good enough, though. There are areas of this that KJs, and the manus, operate under that are not sanctioned by law, which means they are also not condemned by law...this fact is not in dispute, except possibly by someone who might be in denial...

Not A court of law but several Chip....read the rulings (come on I know you have a pacer account pay for them and read them yourself). And yes I believe a lot of the cases will be resolved much more quickly now that precedence has been set. Most Judges will rely on prior rulings you of all people should know that.

Forget the popcorn(even extra large)....tighten up those seat belts, pull down on those safety bars and keep your hands inside the ride at all times. This is going to be a real thrill ride

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

But how long will this effort be able to survive with judgements (a portion of which will never be collected) that barely cover costs and damages that seem to be nothing more than recovery of lost wholesale value? It seems you need more than a bucket to keep up the water bailing process...

"But how long will this effort be able to survive with judgements (a portion of which will never be collected) that barely cover costs and damages that seem to be nothing more than recovery of lost wholesale value? It seems you need more than a bucket to keep up the water bailing process..."

Not all of the judgments have been for only recovery of "lost wholesale value" and the judgment amounts in the north Florida case have been appealed...lets see what the amended amounts total.

A "sump pump" is about to be implemented and the "bucket" abandoned...things will start moving MUCH quicker now

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Must be nice to be "in the know"...so, when do you get your name on the letterhead???lol

NEVER....I wouldn't want that stress,I have enough just dealing with MY business

I am "in the know" because I read these forums, research what has been said, verify and clarify. Nothing anyone else here can't do as well. As I keep stressing,

educate yourselves.
decide on the level of liability you are willing to accept.
THEN
Be responsible and dont complain about the costs of your decisions.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

so tell me, how did you get permission from the other trademark owners?....you DID get written permission from them (as required by law) didn't you? you ARE held to a higher level of responsibility than the manus themselves. you're not breaking the law after preaching so hard for everyone to get charged out the yin-yang to stay in business paying every manu for audits are you?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I have to say, this is an excellent post. It is one that NEEDS to be answered, as much as I like Athena, an explanation would be prudent.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I have email trails that are years long to show that I have made every attempt to procure written permission. I have 3 proofs showing I underwent audits and was granted permission (they are current). I also have emails from 3 other manufactures stating as long as I am 1-1 I am fine. Myself , my husband(and my IP attorney) are comfortable with the level of liability we are assuming....... Can anyone one else say the same ?

Everyone can start sending emails just like I did and cover themselves. I can show that great effort has been expended on my part. If/when any other manufactures implement a policy to deal with media shifting I will not only comply but even post the info here for others.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

And, to add to KJAthena's post, she has already stated in a different topic thread (over 1 year ago) that, in addition to her attempts to contact the out-of-business Manus, with regard to the ones she couldn't contact, this is where she is willing to draw the line and take her risks.