Karaoke Forums

I have a question and a dilemma that I am hoping someone on here can answer for me or give advice on what I should do.
First question:
Karaoke is a hobby of mine, and I like to sing the latest stuff so I have recently started purchasing backing tracks on karaokeversion.com and off amazon.com and then I make them into cd+g's using software I legally own. If I bring my homemade cd+g's into a karaoke bar, as long as I am the only one singing off of the discs, and I am not getting paid for singing them...is what I am doing illegal in any way? Will I get into any trouble for doing so?

Second part (Dilemma):
There is a karaoke bar I frequent a lot, and the KJ that runs the show there has a computerized system and regular discs that can be played in his cd player. whenever someone brings their own karaoke disc in for him to play, he rips it to his karaoke software, where it then goes into a personal folder for each singer. he claims that it makes it easier to run his show that way, and it is more convenient for us singers, so that we don't have to keep bringing the same discs in. I was okay with it when He assured me that nobody else will be singing off my discs he has ripped, as they are in my folder. After I found out he used one of my versions for another person to sing, I asked him to delete all the songs in my folder, and just play the discs in his player and return them back to me instead of ripping them. He has done it before. Anyways, It turns out, he never complied...and even worse, I found out that he has since made burned copies of all of his music (my tracks included..close to 200 of them...a few homemade tracks, but mostly real karaoke discs I purchased at local stores) and gave them to a friend of his (another KJ in town who does shows at another bar) so that he had a bigger music selection. I have proof because his friend stupidly showed me the copies of my discs at his karaoke show. He also burned some of my music for other friends of his. (they have told me themselves that they have copies of some of my music). I was never told or asked if he could make copies of my music, and I am mad beyond belief at what he has done. It is theft, pure and simple. I have not confronted him on it yet, because I don't know what action I can/should take against him. Do I report him to the local police, if so...what can they do about it? Is there somewhere I can report him to or something so that he cant steal any more music from anyone. I am at a loss as of what to do...Any advice on what I should do would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

If any of the material is Sound Choice, you can report him to them, BUT if you burned Sound Choice material onto CD+R you are just as guilty of trademark infringement and can get sued. The police won't do anything for you. If you are "supplying" him with brands like Sweet Georgia Brown and DK, nobody will care. Many brands are defunct and have no representation. Sound Choice, on the other hand, just loves to sue people in order to get them to buy their products. I would suggest you stop burning Karaoke music and using it in public, before you get in trouble. The only recourse you have is to tell the bar owner, which may get you beat up, or rat the guy out to Sound Choice, though if I were you, using burned copies, I would leave it alone, and just go somewhere else.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

You can't do anything. There's no one to report it to. Sound Choice is too busy suing their paying customers for converting their CDs to digital format, and the other producers aren't interested in legal action.

There is nothing you can do about your homemade tracks. The original manufacturer's tracks are another story altogether. If they are SC then report them to SC, contrary to what Rick is saying SC sues more pirates than they do 1:1's. It may take time for them to get investigators into your area so be patient.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

To read some of the responses, you would think this board was exclusively about Sound Choice. It's not. I am a lawyer, but I cannot be your lawyer (I represent SC), and if you are concerned about your exposure to a copyright infringement suit, I do recommend consulting with a lawyer who regularly practices in the copyright law area. However, a little information can't hurt, so here goes:

There are two copyrights that protect the works you download from those sites: protection as a sound recording and protection as the underlying musical work. There are different rights that apply to each of them.

When you use the sound recording to make a CD+G--and by that I assume you mean you are adding a video component that causes the lyrics to be displayed, synchronized to the sound recording--you are making a third kind of work called an audiovisual work. When you take someone else's work and turn it into something else, that act is called "creating a derivative work." Technically, that is an act of copyright infringement if done without permission.

There are many gray areas, however, and ultimately you have to weigh the benefits of what you're doing (I certainly see why you do it--it's got to be a lot of fun) against the risk of someone who has rights that you might be violating finding out and choosing to make an example of you.



It's frustrating to have your work stolen. My client has a lot of experience with that.

The local police are unlikely to be interested in the matter. The usual remedy for that act is a civil suit. There are a couple of problems with that. First, for you to file a civil suit would require you to register your own copyright, which may increase the risks you have of getting discovered by someone who will sue you. Second, even if you had a copyright registration, it's very expensive to sue for copyright infringement. So there may not be anything you personally can do about it.

On the other hand, if these folks have stolen from you, they almost certainly have stolen from others. If they have pirated SC tracks, I would be interested in hearing about it, and you can email me at jharrington (at) harringtonlawpc (dot) com to report it. (I also represent the company that owns the Chartbuster brand, so please also report any CB use.) We will check it out as soon as we can get an investigator there, which might take a long time, depending on where you're located, since we have limited resources and have to prioritize. Since we also use our enforcement actions to force defendants to stop pirating all manufacturers, you might get some direct relief that way.

I really don't understand the bitterness. 90% of your posts in this particular forum are some variation on this message, even when it has nothing to do with the thread, and you're just wrong on the facts anyway.

reporting it will get you know where..... takes too long for anything to happen and if your in a small market area soundchoice won't even mess with you....

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It's all good!

This isn't accurate, either. We have been to big cities and small towns alike.

really? hmmm, ......

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Paradigm, do you have some inside information on when and where any investigations have been or will be done, or are you just assuming?

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Jim,

I'm not bitter. When I was an active KJ, Sound Choice was my absolute go to for almost any track a customer requested, with the exception of a few Chartbuster country tracks. As a singer, I would almost always choose the SC version, given a choice. I don't like the way they have conducted the investigations, by suing first and sorting out later. I see people and venues that I've reported more than once, (although nearly 3 years ago) that were pirating tracks go totally ignored. And still running shows right now. I've seen KJs that have been sued in my market more than a year ago still working regularly, using multiple rigs, while guys that have jumped through all the hoops, have trouble getting more than 1 show per week.

So while I have nothing against you personally, I detest the way this has gone down the past couple of years, with SC leading the charge. I still have many friends in this business, and I work several venues with my DJ Trivia and DJ Bingo shows that have karaoke as well, many with hosts using pirated tracks. I still offer karaoke as an add-on for private parties and events, but I won't enter into the commercial bar venue business again for several reasons.

i have the opposite, if you want to be a pirate, do it in AZ. still watching pirates, including that 7 rig one that i used to work for and reported to Kurt face to face during my audit still in business and untouched after 18 months while watching my 1:1 single rig friend be sued.
the guy in last night taking pictures of the screen when an SC track came on though............
should be interesting when it shows my certified logo on screen with it.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

@timberlea: Your Quote "Paradigm, do you have some inside information on when and where any investigations have been or will be done, or are you just assuming?".

When was the last time (or anytime) that a manu sued anyone in Canada? I assume that your only knowledge for your arguements is from what you have read, not from what you actually know.

Similar situation happened to a friend of mine down in Florida. He confronted the KJ about stealing music from him and, of course, the KJ denied it. Coincidentally, the KJ's van was vandalized shortly there after and the repairs were much more coslty than the price of a few CD+Gs. Truck tires are expensive. I certainly wouldn't recommend such a retaliatory response but my buddy smiles a very big grin whenever he sees that KJ around town.

He also never brings any of his discs with him when he goes to a show that that KJ hosts. He just finds something in the book to sing.

mrmarog, I do not know what actions SC is taking or where. They never told me and I doubt they tell anyone else. So I will not assume. As for any SC actions in Canada, I am not aware of any but that doesn't mean that it won't happen in the future.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I don't know if they have the power to sue across country lines.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

They certainly can at least between Canada and the US. As in the US, they would need an attorney who is a member of the bar in the jurisdiction where the action would take place. Any suit would be under Canadian Law.

Copyright Act of Canada:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-42/index.html

Canadian Trade-marks Act:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/T-13/index.html

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You can be strange but not a stranger

The SC suits are Trademark Infringement suits, not "Piracy" suits. Sound Choice does not accuse any non-distributor KJ of piracy, does not include piracy in the content of the suit, and has not proven ANY non-distributor KJ a pirate.

While there certainly may be some pirates included in the the KJs that have been sued, SC does not "sue more pirates" because they don't sue ANY pirates, except by accident. The suits are directed at media shifters.

Yes, I understand that SC is working under constraints that require this, but that doesn't change the content of the suits. Rick's statement was correct. How people feel about that is subjective.

I want to be very clear about something: This is not an anti-Sound Choice post. In this case, SC has been right out front with their intentions, and Kurt Slep was honest enough to post on the forumsthat SC is not on an anti-piracy crusade, and that re-couping losses is his first concern.

It has been certain KJs that have been attempting to elevate SC to a position that they do not occupy, not that they seem to desire. To this end, words like "legal" instead of "compliant") and "pirate" (instead of "media shifter") have been purposely been misused in a misleading, propaganda type manner by these KJs- but NOT by Sound Choice as far as I can tell.

Apologies for the hijack

As for the OP: Notifying Sound Choice or Piracy Recovery may get you some personal satisfaction, and the KJ some temporary difficulty, but getting more than that from ANY source is doubtful at this time.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Harrington made it a point in a post on this forum in the last day or so that they, as part of a settlement, require tracks from ALL MANUS that cannot be proven to them as being 1:1 be removed from systems (which of course could never be enforced--there is no way it is legal to require anyone to account for property that is not theirs or even make it an enforceable stipulation for an agreement). This attempt has NOTHING to do with trademark infringement.

Don't take this as a post in support of SC or Harrington, but I have to beg to differ with you with regard to your interpretation of what is and what is not enforceable.

If you sign an agreement saying you will remove all tracks that you don't own discs for, whether they are SC or not, that is, in fact, an enforceable agreement. It doesn't matter who's tracks they are at that point once you sign an agreement.

He**, if you sign an agreement that you'll never eat another Twinkie, that is also enforceable, even though SC has absolutely nothing to do with Twinkies. The point is -- if you agree, then you are accountable to your agreement and it will hold up in court.

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Birdofsong