Karaoke Forums

So, if I buy a CDG, and I load it onto a hard drive player, and I keep the disc in a filing cabinet with a receipt to show I purchased it, am I still at risk if I get sued? Am I the kind of target SoundChoice and others would go after?

And what if I buy three CDGs and load them on three hard drive players, and keep all three discs?

What if I do that, but only hang onto one disc?

What if I buy one disc and load it on three hard drive players, all for use on the same premises?

Are these examples of media shifting?

Yes, you could face a lawsuit in all your examples. In example one you are just a technical infringer, because you are 1:1.

All of your other scenarios you are a pirate, and must buy the GEM series, or quit the business.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I'm not sure I understand your question here? Are you still at risk for what if you get sued? Do you mean to ask, "Am I at risk of being sued?"? (see next quote).



Yes. Anyone using a Computer is targeted. Now, as for who is doing the targeting, right now, it appears that Sound Choice is the only one (and they can only go after you for the use of their product).


I take that to mean you purchased 3 CDGs, and loaded 1 on Harddrive A, 1 on Harddrive B, and 1 on Harddrive C. That being said, see answer above. Assuming these are SC tracks that you are referring to, if targeted (by SC), you would be named in a lawsuit. You are considered to be an "Infringer" of the copyright usage of their Logo. You would then have to submit to an Audit (by a SC Rep.) for a fee. Once you have passed their audit, you have to notify them whenever you obtain additional SC discs (that you did not have prior to your audit), and add those tracks to your Harddrive.


If you buy a disc, load it onto your Harddrive, and then sell/give away/trash the disc, as long as you keep the tracks from that disc on your Harddrive, you are considered to be a Pirate. You are no longer 1:1 (meaning 1 physical disc must match up to being on 1 harddrive)... Without the actual disc in your possession, you are now 0:1.


If you media shift and you are NOT 1:1 , then you are considered to be a Pirate. In this example, you are now 1:3. It doesn't matter if those Harddrives are being used on the same premises or 10 miles apart from each other.


Yes. Any disc which you purchase, and then transfer to a harddrive is exactly that... a media shift from disc to computer.

In your last 2 examples, if you are targeted and sued by Sound Choice, part of their settlement agreement with you requires that you purchase their GEM series (which you don't technically own because it is a lease for the use of that series), and you must destroy/erase any of the SC tracks on your Harddrive for which you do not own the discs.

ditto on cue's answer. you only have to worry about SC as no other company has restrictions on you media shifting to HD. if you do it with SC you must pay for the privilege and keep up with sending them updates on your purchases. outside of them, just stay 1:1 and here is no issue. if you start dealing with either material you have not bought from an authorized seller, or make more copies than you paid for, you are a pirate and are the reason we all have to make sure our colons are clean for the SC machine.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Actually, we don't know what will happen with Piracy Recovery, yet. We might have to clean our colons for THEM, too.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

If you had actually been audited by SC you would realize how ridiculous this piece of hyperbole is.

By reading one of Sound Choice's legal suits penned by Mr. Harrington's office or himself, it clearly states that Sound Choice allows a 1:1 media shift ratio.

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Sergeant J. Travis Miller
Harrison Taylor County 911

Only if you get audited. It's not automatic with SC. I only wish it was automatic.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Direct Quote from the Karaoke Kandy Store file.

21. Slep-Tone only sells its recordings in CD+G format. Slep-Tone authorizes
its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used.

Here is mentions nothing of being audited prior to this being allowed. This comes directly from their counsel and has been filed in a federal court. I would have not problem presenting this as evidence for myself even if I havent been audited.

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Sergeant J. Travis Miller
Harrison Taylor County 911

It appears that Mr. Harrington's office was not involved in the writing of this instrument.

Edit for spelling

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Sergeant J. Travis Miller
Harrison Taylor County 911

The problem with just about anything that SC's has said in the past or will say in the future, can be and will be changed whenever they feel like it, to suit their needs.

Nothing they have said has become a law. So they can change the rules, kinda like when kids play games.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

If you want to take the chance and shift SC's material because you read it on some website, have at it. If you get caught with their trademarks on your computer you will be named in a lawsuit for trademark infringement. You will then be FORCED into an audit that will cost you $500, as per Mr. Harrington, in order to clear your name. SC does NOT just give out permission like some of the other companies do. That is why many people are pissed off at them. You CAN shift their stuff, then ask for an audit that will cost you $150 to have done. Then you will be legit with them, and will have no trouble. You can NOT just shift their material without permission. They get very pissy about it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I guess then he can sue the Karaoke Kandy Store for posting incorrect information ?...

You would think he(KaraokeHeros) would go directly to the SC site and read what they have had posted for years now.

Athena

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Karaoke Kandy store didnt file the lawsuit against themselves did they? My quote comes from the lawsuit filed AGAINST the Karaoke Kandy store by Slep-Tone's council on behalf of Slep-Tone. I know I dont post alot but come on. You are not using your reading comprehension skills. Again, SC's Attorney filed this lawsuit in a federal court. This is a quote from said lawsuit, not from some random website. Their lawsuit doesnt state at all that someone has to be audited in order to media shift. No wonder I dont post here, what attitudes you guys have. Geesh.

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Sergeant J. Travis Miller
Harrison Taylor County 911

Does it say that you don't have to be audited?

I would think that if you(general) were filing a federal lawsuit you would make sure that you included all the pertinent information, for example we allow a 1-1 media shift if/when......doesnt seem too bright to have not included that tiny bit of information. Additionally does this requirement include the tracks that your client illegally produced or just the legal ones? I do not KJ anymore, but I wouldnt be afraid to media shift 1-1 without being audited.

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Sergeant J. Travis Miller
Harrison Taylor County 911

It is NOT who they are going after - they want the people that never bought a disc in their life, however it would be up to you to submit to an audit or not, otherwise you MIGHT run the risk of being named in a suit then would need to do an audit at a possible higher cost to you. Also if you do not wish to transfer (media shift) your discs to computer, and strictly run from disc - no audits are necessary. But you are talking about transferring to computer.

Same answer as number one with the addition of 3 shows, 3 systems, 3 discs in your posession for each system - nothing wrong with that.

This is called multi rigging where you only have 1 set of discs for multiple shows, not legal & the type of kj SC is going after. If you want to run multiple shows (3 in this example), you must buy 3 of each track or disc that you use - that is if you want the same selection on each system. But you cannot just buy one & copy it to the other two is the point.

Well the question would be why? If it's for back up only, I don't see you needing 2 extra players, 1 would normally suffice, but if the extra players are on the premises together at the same time and NEVER being used independantly, then I believe back-ups are permitted.


Media shifting in your first two examples, piracy in the third re 1 disc for 3 systems.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you are running STRICTLY DISC-BASED with NO COMPUTER INVOLVED, SC will perform an audit service for THESE individuals also........basically audit your disc collection to ensure you are not utilizing COUNTERFEIT "SC" discs. They will then provide you with a cert document on SC letterhead attesting to these results. This was done for me in Portland, Ore when Kurt Slep visited recently. They went through my 500 disc collection and declared it free of COUNTERFEIT SOUNDCHOICE media. Their new Oregon Auditor is handling the paperwork for my "Certification" Document. He also came and did a certification at the bar I KJ at (all disc, we have a total of 10 SC Discs and laser--no puter) and SC will be providing a "Cert" document for the bar also.

So Disc-Based KJ's are not forgotten!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

does it say you do? you are taking me to court with a document saying that i was doing what you are allowing me to do.
it doesn't say i have to stand on my head and sing i'm a little teapot either, so how can it be brought up? write whatever you want in the suit and change it as you go along in court?

"Slep-Tone authorizes its customers to “format shift” and transfer the contents of a genuine SOUND CHOICE
CD+G recording to a single computer or MP3 player, provided that the customer keeps
the original copy of the CD+G in his possession as an archival copy that is not used."

this is what it says, no more, no less. no stipulations other than keep the original archived. a judge is going to be so happy with "i know that's what i said to the court, but i didn't mean it, i want to add another stipulation or two in there your honor."

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

OH GOODY!!! Let's all start shifting SC discs!! HELL YEAH!!!



Kidding, relax. Don't start drooling Mr. Harrington.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE