Karaoke Forums

I have been hosting now for a touch over 5 years. I quit actively looking for gigs one year in and haven't looked back.

Where I host is of no concern, but suffice it to say that it's a geographically large area with a smaller urban population. In the five years I've been in business, I've had 8 direct competitors in an area that is hard pressed to support even one, and at this point in time, there is only one other host left (good friend of mine, actually). The rest went out of business or moved on because they could not compete, and I even charge a higher rate than anyone else! I think that says something. Even their undercutting got them nowhere.
While a part of me sympathizes with you about the heavy competition because you are in the Seattle area, the other part of me wonders why you are whining about it when you knew getting in exactly what it would be like.



And the fact remains that the difference here is that I got my gigs based on my talent and reputation alone. I didn't need to pay off anyone to get a piece of paper to show to venues.
You got yours because the venues were simply afraid of getting sued. They didn't ask for "YOU". They asked for a "certified" host, which could have been anyone who ponied up to pay off SC. They would have hired a "certified" FROG if that was all that was in the area. You were not hired based on skill or talent and all your whining about being in a competitive market is just that: whining.

Whining or explaining?

If one lived in the country where these suits were taking place then one might understand that a venue would be interested in hiring a certified host over the risk of being sued. The certification got him the call--the opportunity--it did not guarantee that he would land the job nor keep the job. He still has to deliver. No need to equate certification with inabiltity to host or market--it is an opportunity creator based on being in specific market conditions. No one has suggested it as a substitute for hosting ability.

If you only have 8 direct competitors, then you can't even begin to compare your situation with mine.

I would relate this to you racing dirt track sprint cars and me racing Nascar. Sure, we both race, but we are competing on different levels. Everything from the cost of doing business to the cost of living is different.

If you want to call what I am saying as whining, then I propose you come to Seattle, or any of the other major metropolitan areas and try your hand at this. It is a different world. That isn't whining, it is just reality.



This is where assumptions bite people in the backside. Just so happens that with the 5 night a week gig I picked up, they had already interviewed 1 other certified host, and had 2 more coming in later the same day I met with them. After speaking with them, they hired me on the spot and called off the other two folks. That was me selling myself over 3 other certified hosts.

Ribbit....

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

Moving this post again... Take 3.

That's where you're dead wrong.
Imagine 8 karaoke hosts in a small town like Moses Lake. The competition is even fiercer in a small place like that. I think I CAN compare my situation with yours, with dead accuracy, I'd say.


You're kidding, right?
My cost of doing business is EXACTLY the same as yours, save equipment differences, and that is based purely on choice. I could choose to go higher end and you could choose the opposite, but the cost of doing business is exactly the same otherwise. (Incidentally, I have any amount of pro sound equipment at my disposal at any given time and I have definitely not chosen to go with low end garbage).
As for the cost of living, what does that have to do with anything?
We're talking BUSINESS here, remember?
Cost of living has zip to do with this subject and I'm not sure why you would even try to bring it up.

I could try my hand at it any other city, and I would do just fine at it WITHOUT SC's "certification". But no thanks, I'm quite happy where I'm at. Why don't you try your have at a smaller place like Moses Lake with only 8 others to compete against an NO SC "certification to nab you a gig or two. Let's see how well you fare then.

Good for you. Apparently you got lucky this time and beat the other guys to it. This time. What happens next time when they call the other guys first? Guess what? You lose!
That doesn't happen with me. Ever. I have people calling me for ME, not because I have some "certificate" or any other reason other than they KNOW I do the job and I do it well. They KNOW, and they're willing to pay more for it too. In the FIRST year I was a host at ONE gig (only one) and I built my reputation up to the point that I had people seeking me out and knocking on my door and I now turn them away. The FIRST year. ONE gig.
With you, they took a pot shot in the dark, by your own admission, since you have very little experience, though 2 years at it should be long enough in my eyes, and for some reason you have been unable to build up your reputation in that time.
Your "certification" is still not worth the paper it was written on.
Ribbit right back atcha....

Saying I am wrong doesn't make it so.

In Moses Lake I would be competing against at most 7 pirates. In Seattle I am competing against many hundreds of legal and illegal hosts. Scale matters. In Moses Lake I could have personal relationships with many of the other hosts as well as the venues. My reputation could easily precede me and I would see that as a positive and something that is easier to manage. The same does not apply in a major metro area.



When I kid, I add smileys.

If the cost of living is higher, the cost of doing business is higher. They go hand in hand.

If you can live on 30k/yr where as someone else has to make 40k/yr to maintain the same standard of living, then they either have to charge more, or they have to drastically cut costs.

We are talking basic high school BUSINESS classes here....



Like you, I enjoy where I am. I just recognize that where I am is different than where you are and understand the different challenges that our respective areas pose. One size does not fit all here.




So you are saying that you are something other than lucky where I have no ability to survive without luck.

Challenge Accepted.....stay tuned.



I would bow to your awesomeness, but I may bump my head on your ego.

Again, try your hand in a super saturated area like Seattle. It is easy to establish a positive reputation that can be heard in a pool of 8. Try establishing that reputation in a pool of 300. You may be top dog where you are now, but you may be bottom 25% here. Though I am sure you would do just awesome here because every bar in town would fall over themselves to call you because you are.....you.

The only point I am trying to make here now is that what works for your little piece of the world does not necessaily work in every other piece of the world. You have a very narrow view of the world if you think you can just do exactly what you do where you are and expect it to work with equivalent success every where or even ANYwhere else.

-Chris


-Chris

_________________
-Chris

It is if it is the requirement of the venue. And in his case it was. You would not have gotten the gig no matter how good you are.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Hey Chris.....Ribbit Ribbit this frog just picked up another gig where they were looking for certified hosts ONLY...BTW did you know our mascot/LOGO is Krokie the frog?

Athena

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I was going to point that out as well....but obvious is obvious.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

maybe i need to go to a smaller area. i have more than double your Seattle population in Phoenix and not one venue here will hire a certified host. i have now pulled all mention of my certs from all my advertising to get my foot back in the door with some other places as long as word hasn't spread too much.

_________________
Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Chris, I don't know whether YOU got the gigs because they were sold on you, or you were to the first to show them your "certifications".

What I do know is that I work in an area ( Northern Bergen County, NJ) that would make Seattle look like Mayberry. Seems like there's a venue every 8 feet - all competing with each other- and 4 KJs per looking to get in their doors.

I have been competing against pirates at both the top and bottom of the scale, as well as perfectly "compliant" undercutters for a few decades now.

I've been successful at it too! I admit that I have the advantage of longevity in the business as well as name recognition- but still, I had to start somewhere.

While I have seen some action regarding SC's mechanizations, I have yet to see anyone who has gone through the "certification" process ( voluntarily or not) willingly display anything connected to it. Also, I have been told that they neither bring it up to prospective vendors nor add it to their mailings.

In my neck of the woods it seems that vendors either take offense, or decide it's best not to bother with anyone involved.


What I'm saying is that- my personal opinion of these "certifications" aside- it would seem that any value might also be regionally affected.

In other words, and on either side of the debates, I believe one would find that such things would have much less value (little or none) in places like New York, NJ, Philadelphia, Las Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Boston ( and apparently Las Vegas, plus the addition of Paradigm's statements regarding Phoenix), and possibly a little more in the less citified areas of middle America.

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I will be the first to admit that TODAY, certifications mean very little in the grand scheme of things. Until or unless they take more of a foothold in the industry, they will only be a novelty differentiator. I personally don't think that in their current form they will every reach any kind of critical mass.

In the meantime, I am going to take advantage of what little momentum they do have and ride the wave while it lasts. As long as venues call me asking for a certified host/company, I see value in them. It has worked for me, in my area.

By the way....I think it should be noted that at no point in this thread have I said anyone else should go get certified, that it is required to be legal, or that anyone is any less capable as a host if they choose not to certify. I have merely defended my position as a certified host. I have said before that certification is not a requirement to be a legal host. If anything I consider it a silly formality.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

I am hoping that HarringtonLaw sees this before it gets buried again....


Here is where you need to be more SC brand specific. Chris has stated that he is Certified by SC and CB, and has paid for the CAP program by Stellar (which could be interpreted as being Certified by them). Now, as you are probably aware (but Venues are more than likely not), that CAP program is giving Chris permission to use pirated material which he purchased (at a very substantial savings), unlike a SC certification, where one of the stipulations is that he is not allowed to continue using pirated/counterfeited SC material. Granted, he purchased this pirated material unwittingly, but, nevertheless, he is still using it (and the cost of the CAP program doesn't come anywhere close to what the retail cost of those discs (12 year span (1995 - 2007) would have been). But, again, your statement seems to be a blanket statement and not a SC specific statement.

In regards to the CAP program from Stellar, I agree that it does distinguish Chris from the pirates. The distinction between Chris and the pirates is that he can now use material which was pirated from Stellar (for the years between 1995 and 2007) with no fear of repercussions from Stellar.




Too much is implied by that statement on it's own. That statement should be phrased more clearly to the Venues. It should be stated that SC will never sue a venue for hiring a KJ who:
1. DOES NOT play SC tracks directly from a disc.
AND
2. Has been audited/inspected by SC, and is Certified by SC to be allowed to play those (already audited/inspected) SC tracks that he/she possesses in formats other than directly from the disc/s.

It should also be stated that SC WILL NOT sue a venue for hiring a KJ who
EITHER
1. Plays discs on a disc player (we don't need to get technical here on what kind of disc player, because too many people outside of KJs just don't understand or comprehend that a CDG is different from a CD)
OR
2. Uses any other brand, regardless of the format it is played in, because SC has no jurisdiction to do so.

I am in the Pocono Mtns in Pa., last night at my show I had a very nice couple visiting from Florida come in to my show. My SC cert is printed in my book. One of the first things they said to me was nice to see someone with a computer based show that must own disks, at least you won't get shut down like everyone in their area did. They said where they live they went from 40 some hosts to 3 last year when suits hit their area. These people were karaoke singers, not hosts, and were well aware of what was happening any why. The certs don't mean much here (right now) but apparently they are starting to mean something in some areas of the country. Our area has not been hit by a rash of suits yet but most of the places we play at are aware of what is going on and have thanked us for trying to be proactive. We have also picked up 2 shows now from bars that had "true pirates" and didn't want the chance of liability. The patrons last night were not the first to comment to us on the cert and while most have been from out of town, we are hearing it more and more.
I'm not a cheerleader or a hater, just a guy trying to run a business, but a little proactive cooperation would seem to me to go a long way for the betterment of the industry as a whole. If people own it, it is not hard to prove it. If you don't own it, you are a thief , get out of my sandbox.

I had a group come into my show last night that also commented on my certs being printed there. They knew the SC and CB certs but the Stellar CAP raised questions because they weren't familiar with the Stellar name. Once I associated it to PHM, they got it.

-Chris

_________________
-Chris

OK talking about karaoke singers commenting on your certification is stretching it now...

They could have been other hosts or singers wondering what it is. Our local karaoke magazine has been pushing the whole SC, CB & PHM certifications, lawsuits & piracy in general for the last couple years, so yes it's very possible people were commenting on them because they are informed and do know what's going on. I only have the SC and have people comment on it - whether it be curiosity or a 'good job'.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The couple at my show said they were not hosts (yes... they could be lying) but knew about it because of the lawsuits in their area of Florida. Then again maybe they were investigators with Florida plates on their car who just decided to eat and drink about 120.00 between them because they are charging everything back while investigating. (paranoid tendencies increasing by the moment ....quick hide the computer..pull the books..change my name.........)

Well, these darn certifications have just rendered me three brand new gigs with a major bar&grill chain. They are not the reason why I got the call originally, but coupled with SC's most recent visit, they helped "seal the deal" and I am very excited about it.
Not only that, but I have also received a few other inquiries recently that are wanting more information with regards to being certified, lawsuits, etc.
It has been a rather long journey since these lawsuits first started down here, but things are finally starting to happen.
Bring out the pom poms!!!!

_________________
Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I think I'm just looking to even the playing field again. I'll put my hosting skills, 24 years of karaoke exp. + radio exp. etc up against anyone. If I tell people on this forum I use the 800 + SC disks I have in my my main system they want to call me "Brand Dependent" ....well Duh, they represent 10000 songs in my library and for about 18 years I was able to claim one of the largest libraries in Pa. and SC was USUALLY the best version. I'm not ashamed to play them, or my pioneers or DK if that's what they want. Pirates DID hurt my marketing when my library went from being 2x the size of my competitors to 1/3 of what what the pirates offered. I don't want to pay anyone so I can use what I purchased on my computer , but if I have to I will, and to think of dropping any brand because they care if I'm legit is ridiculous. If Maestro reforms tomorrow and want to see my 10-20 years old disks, I have em and I'll show them. I have always looked for the best in people but anymore if I go to a show and they don't have ANY SC, or books or.... I assume they are pirates. I in no way assume someone who has shifted is a pirate, because in our little piece of the world the biggest pirates are 4 competitors who multi rig on burned disks.