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diafel
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:55 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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chrisavis wrote: If you thought I would say it, you should have actually predicted it. Anyone can say after the fact "that's exactly what I thought you would say".
But if you really want, I can go make the post count and come up with the exact numbers. However, you should do one yourself to confirm what I come up with. Otherwise, you would simply be taking my word for it and we wouldn't want that...would we?
Still right on target with how I thought you would respond. chrisavis wrote:
For the record, I have never used pirated material. I purchased a system that contained pirated material, I did not use it in production. I used only the material that I did have discs for. There was a 6 month period after me paying in full for the CAP and when I received my certificates from Stellar. During that time I didn't use any of the Stellar material covered by the CAP. After I received the certificates I started putting the CAP covered materials back in production. I used the few discs that came with the system, bought a few retail discs, and started making bulk purchases very early on.
Even so, you were, by Kurt's (and many others here) definition still a pirate, by mere possession of said tracks, whether you used them or not. I'm surprised that some on here don't still label you that. chrisavis wrote: It wouldn't include me because
a) I did buy my discs and
b) I did submit to an audit on his terms and
c) Kurt knows I don't agree with everything he says or does. The difference being I don't berate him in public, I don't curse him or his company (or his attorneys) and I maintain a private dialog with him.
And yes, it WOULD have included you when Kurt was here just by mere possession of said pirated tracks. chrisavis wrote: Wouldn't you be pretty quick to point the finger at people? Especially when on these very forums, just about anyone could throw a dart and chances are pretty good it would hit a pirate host?
In short, NO. chrisavis wrote: Kurt could have taken a different approach to things, but it doesn't change that many THOUSANDS of people stole from Sound Choice. As a company they employed good people that had to find other jobs when Sound Choice ramped down production. I would be pretty pissed off too.
What do HIS problems with the industry have to do with me? Why should I pay the price for something someone else did? Why should I be labelled a pirate without ANY basis in fact, just because I disagreed with him? You have things pretty mixed up here. chrisavis wrote: I am not judging you.
Yes, you are. chrisavis wrote: I am making a comment based on archived and observed information. The information may be incomplete, but it doesn't mean that the observation is incorrect.
Yes, it DOES. When you go in half cocked without ALL the information to make a judgement (what you call and "observation") about someone, chances are pretty high that you will be WRONG. ALL the information is not available. Therefore, it's not possible to make an accurate judgement. Period. chrisavis wrote: Kurt isn't here any longer.....let it go.
You brought it up by coloring me as previously positive and now negative. I countered with WHY you might see it that way, since you don't have ALL the information available. chrisavis wrote: I read that thread when it was first posted. You'll note I had nothing to say about it then and I have nothing to say about it now. All it served then, as now, is to stir the pot and add more to the negativity you claim is so rampant here. Your reason for lugging that out of the dustbin and into this thread is? Like I said before, perhaps you need ALL the information before you go around judging others.
Last edited by diafel on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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earthling12357
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:59 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm
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chrisavis wrote: diafel wrote: chrisavis wrote: If you go back and review posts from Jan 1st until now, the "cheerleaders" usually bring up certifications in response to the incessant whining from the other side about how certification is a bad thing. I say usually because even I have started threads that indicate certifications (IMO) are a positive thing. But if you look at trends and themes, the anti-cert, anti-Sound Choice folks win hands down.
Go back and tally up the threads in the Legalities forums. There are very few threads started with the intent of extolling the virtues of certifications while there are countless threads that have been started questioning the manufacturers, questioning the lawsuits, and generally portraying any action taken by the manufacturers as being negative.
...........<SNIP>..............
The numbers speak for themselves anyway - How many certified hosts are there compared to non-certified? The certified folks are a vocal minority.
-Chris Care to share your numbers with everyone, since it seems you've counted? You are quite capable of find that info out yourself I am sure. But I did go back through posts to the piracy forum from Jan 1st til now and it is overwhelmingly anti-cert/anti-Sound Choice/anti-postive. As for other numbers - there are less than 250 Sound Choice Certified folks on the SC page. The vast majority of those are certified as a result of something OTHER than pro-active audit. Of those, very few participate on these forums. Even fewer still take a vocal position in the forums. We are the vocal minority..... earthling12357 wrote: This is false and unfortunately can not be proven either way for several reasons.
1. There have been many threads deleted that no longer appear here that could tip the balance either way.
2. There have been many threads split into other threads based on a moderator's point of veiw and they have lost the context that led up to the splitting of the thread.
3. The search function on this forum is totally hosed and doesn't reliably search posts prior to April of this year. Test it by searching keywords of your own early posts and see for yourself. diafel wrote: earthling12357 has some very valid points here and I would definitely agree that what things appear to be NOW (as opposed to before items were deleted, and moved around to varying degrees) are NOT what they have been in the past, nor are they an accurate indication as to what they are now.
MANY threads now appear to have been started by people that, in fact, did NOT start them, but instead were snipped from previous threads on the whim of seemingly one moderator, and as such, are merely replies to said previous threads and not original posts in and of, themselves. This has the effect of making it appear that the OP is someone else, when in fact, it is a MODERATOR who started the thread.
Kind of screws up a proper count as to who started what, especially when there is no notation as to what thread it was originally snipped from. While counts would normally matter, it is the tone that actually counts. Go back and look at your own posts and watch them turn from generally positive when you came to the forums and how negative they are now. Maybe mirrors should be standard issue with membership here.... -Chris I looked at my posts. It all looks positive to me. Positively correct. Negative and positive are perspectives. If you are getting a “negative vibe” from my point of view, it’s probably because we disagree on the subject matter. Your disagreement in itself does not make me wrong, and neither does your “negative vibe.” This would quickly become a very boring and quiet forum if everyone were of the same point of view. I think healthy debate is a positive thing. I believe the debating of an issue should be done by presenting a stance and offering facts and data to support that stance. I don’t think personal characterizations such as negative and positive serve any useful purpose in persuasive debate. Even when I disagree with your point of view I enjoy reading it. You usually offer some basis for your point of view, which is more than many others here are willing to do. If there are any postings or posters here that give me that “negative vibe” it’s those one-liner drive-bys that offer nothing but snottyness. More on the positive side: The search functions are working again! Let’s look in the mirror. I ran a couple of quick keyword searches and got these results: Key word – Certification Entire forum – 622 Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum Diafel – 7 out of 2206 .3% of own posts 1% of entire forum Earthling12357 – 10 out of 963 1% of own posts 1.6% of entire forum JoeChartreuse – 26 out of 2649 1% of own posts 4% of entire forum Birdofsong – 2 out of 730 .2% of own posts .3% of entire forum Key word – Certified Entire forum – 1427 Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum Diafel 8 out of 2206 3.6% of own posts 1.2% of entire forum Earthling12357 28 out of 963 2.9% of own posts 1.9% of entire forum JoeChatreuse – 57 out of 2649 2.1% of own posts 3.9% of entire forum Birdofsong – 20 out of 730 2.7% of own posts 1.4% of entire forum I don’t know if these results really mean anything, but it sure looks like someone in that group is talking about certification a lot more than the others.
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diafel
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:06 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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JoeChartreuse wrote: Diafel forgot to mention that he also deemed anyone whose library was not SC in the majority a lousy KJ.. Yup, he is in agreement with the brand-dependents- go figure.... Diafel, I've seen myself in the morning, and I'm not so big on mirrors either....   Pretty hard to put all his rants about KJ's into just a few sentences. In fact, one might need to write a novel to include all his accusations against GOOD people. As for your mirror, Joe, I'm sure you look much better when you use something other than that fun house mirror you picked up off the street. I tried to warn you about that! 
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diafel
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:10 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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earthling12357 wrote:
I ran a couple of quick keyword searches and got these results:
Key word – Certification
Entire forum – 622
Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum
Diafel – 7 out of 2206 .3% of own posts 1% of entire forum
Earthling12357 – 10 out of 963 1% of own posts 1.6% of entire forum
JoeChartreuse – 26 out of 2649 1% of own posts 4% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 2 out of 730 .2% of own posts .3% of entire forum
Key word – Certified
Entire forum – 1427
Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum
Diafel 8 out of 2206 3.6% of own posts 1.2% of entire forum
Earthling12357 28 out of 963 2.9% of own posts 1.9% of entire forum
JoeChatreuse – 57 out of 2649 2.1% of own posts 3.9% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 20 out of 730 2.7% of own posts 1.4% of entire forum
I don’t know if these results really mean anything, but it sure looks like someone in that group is talking about certification a lot more than the others.
That's really interesting. Funny how the numbers come out..... What was that about one side posting repetitive stuff about "certification" over the other again? (Oops! I just skewed the numbers!)
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earthling12357
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:14 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm
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chrisavis wrote: I don't want to spend a lot of time defending Kurt directly. He can do that himself. But for perspective, if an industry you helped create stole everything you made and then ran you out of business, wouldn't you be a little bitter? Wouldn't you be pretty quick to point the finger at people? Especially when on these very forums, just about anyone could throw a dart and chances are pretty good it would hit a pirate host? Are you talking about active posters here? Man, what a bummer, I'm getting a negative vibe now.
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hiteck
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:37 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:39 am
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earthling12357 wrote: chrisavis wrote: I don't want to spend a lot of time defending Kurt directly. He can do that himself. But for perspective, if an industry you helped create stole everything you made and then ran you out of business, wouldn't you be a little bitter? Wouldn't you be pretty quick to point the finger at people? Especially when on these very forums, just about anyone could throw a dart and chances are pretty good it would hit a pirate host? Are you talking about active posters here? Man, what a bummer, I'm getting a negative vibe now. I wondered that myself.
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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:43 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm
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diafel wrote: Still right on target with how I thought you would respond. How would you like me to respond? If you want an answer, ask a question. diafel wrote: chrisavis wrote: Wouldn't you be pretty quick to point the finger at people? Especially when on these very forums, just about anyone could throw a dart and chances are pretty good it would hit a pirate host?
In short, NO. I don't believe you considering the finger point you do now. diafel wrote: What do HIS problems with the industry have to do with me? Why should I pay the price for something someone else did? Why should I be labelled a pirate without ANY basis in fact, just because I disagreed with him?
You have things pretty mixed up here. What does some person who can't or won't find work have to do with me? Why should I subsidize them with my taxes? Why should I contribute to social programs to help those people if I am doing just fine? Because ultimately it does impact me. I don't think you should have to pay the price for something someone else did. But you will in some way no matter what. Whether that be payment for an audit/certification, increased cost of obtaining music to counter losses from piracy, or the shuttering of quality manufacturers because they can't remain profitable. You will and you are paying. You just don't or refuse to see that. diafel wrote: chrisavis wrote: I am not judging you.
Yes, you are. I am sorry you feel that way. But lets call the kettle black. If what I have said is interpreted as judging you, then you are certainly judging me as well. You aren't above it all. diafel wrote: chrisavis wrote: I am making a comment based on archived and observed information. The information may be incomplete, but it doesn't mean that the observation is incorrect.
Yes, it DOES. When you go in half cocked without ALL the information to make a judgement (what you call and "observation") about someone, chances are pretty high that you will be WRONG. ALL the information is not available. Therefore, it's not possible to make an accurate judgement. Period. That is EXACTLY what I thought you would say..... diafel wrote: chrisavis wrote: I read that thread when it was first posted. You'll note I had nothing to say about it then and I have nothing to say about it now. All it served then, as now, is to stir the pot and add more to the negativity you claim is so rampant here. Your reason for lugging that out of the dustbin and into this thread is? Like I said before, perhaps you need ALL the information before you go around judging others. Stirring the pot? You want to label me as a pot-stirrer after having only been on the forums for 3 weeks? Talk about judging and not having all of the information. Wow. But since we are talking labels.....and specifically the pirate label..... -Chris
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chrisavis
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:51 pm |
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hiteck wrote: earthling12357 wrote: chrisavis wrote: I don't want to spend a lot of time defending Kurt directly. He can do that himself. But for perspective, if an industry you helped create stole everything you made and then ran you out of business, wouldn't you be a little bitter? Wouldn't you be pretty quick to point the finger at people? Especially when on these very forums, just about anyone could throw a dart and chances are pretty good it would hit a pirate host? Are you talking about active posters here? Man, what a bummer, I'm getting a negative vibe now. I wondered that myself. No. I am not specifically calling out active posters here. But if I had to make a bet, Yes, there are some posters that are pirates. -Chris
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chrisavis
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:02 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm
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Anyone notice that elephant in the corner? earthling12357 wrote:
Key word – Certification
Entire forum – 622
Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum
Diafel – 7 out of 2206 .3% of own posts 1% of entire forum
Earthling12357 – 10 out of 963 1% of own posts 1.6% of entire forum
JoeChartreuse – 26 out of 2649 1% of own posts 4% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 2 out of 730 .2% of own posts .3% of entire forum
c. staley - 53
Key word – Certified
Entire forum – 1427
Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum
Diafel 8 out of 2206 3.6% of own posts 1.2% of entire forum
Earthling12357 28 out of 963 2.9% of own posts 1.9% of entire forum
JoeChatreuse – 57 out of 2649 2.1% of own posts 3.9% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 20 out of 730 2.7% of own posts 1.4% of entire forum
c. staley - 152
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diafel
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:13 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
Posts: 2444
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chrisavis wrote: How would you like me to respond? If you want an answer, ask a question.
I did, the first time. chrisavis wrote: I don't believe you considering the finger point you do now.
Really? Just where am I pointing and at whom and why? chrisavis wrote: What does some person who can't or won't find work have to do with me? Why should I subsidize them with my taxes? Why should I contribute to social programs to help those people if I am doing just fine?
You're kidding me, right? Oh, please spare me that bleeding heart mentality. You're likening SC, a PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESS, with social programs? Wow! That's really rich! chrisavis wrote: Because ultimately it does impact me.
I don't think you should have to pay the price for something someone else did. But you will in some way no matter what. Whether that be payment for an audit/certification, increased cost of obtaining music to counter losses from piracy, or the shuttering of quality manufacturers because they can't remain profitable. You will and you are paying. You just don't or refuse to see that.
I see what you're saying, and I disagree with you. Sure, there may not be as much available music in the short term, but as with any other BUSINESS, the cream will eventually rise to the top. Those who can make it will survive. Those who can't, won't, and I believe that someone else will come along to take their place. As for your judgement about quality, I think there's still some out there producing quality goods. SC isn't the only brick in the road. SC had its chance YEARS ago to keep up with the technology and to provide what their customers wanted. They also knew YEARS ago that their product was being pirated on a massive scale, yet they chose to do NOTHING about it until recently. The regular music industry dealt with this challenge years ago and they are still going. So whose fault is that? As for paying for it one way or another, that's fine by me, but I would rather pay for it through a slightly higher priced good or a government issued license than pay SC what amounts to protection money and allow them to make up the rules as they go along and invade my privacy without just cause. chrisavis wrote:
I am sorry you feel that way. But lets call the kettle black. If what I have said is interpreted as judging you, then you are certainly judging me as well. You aren't above it all.
Actually, I'm not judging you. Were I doing so, I would have tarred you with the pirate brush from the get-go ( just WHY didn't you delete all those files right when you knew there were no discs for them?) and left it at that, but I didn't, whether you choose to believe so or not. As I stated before, SOME of us do know that there are exceptions to the circumstances that must be considered. You are possibly one of them. diafel wrote:
That is EXACTLY what I thought you would say.....
Neener, neener, neener right back atcha chrisavis wrote: Stirring the pot? You want to label me as a pot-stirrer after having only been on the forums for 3 weeks? Talk about judging and not having all of the information. Wow.
But since we are talking labels.....and specifically the pirate label.....
-Chris My bad. I should have specified that digging it out then DID stir the pot , whether that was your intention or not, and bringing it up now DEFINITELY IS stirring the pot. Why would you do that? And are you calling me a pirate, because you are certainly insinuating it! On what grounds? I'd suggest a rethink on that one and you might want to amend your post to reflect your reassessment.
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diafel
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
Posts: 2444
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chrisavis wrote: No. I am not specifically calling out active posters here. But if I had to make a bet, Yes, there are some posters that are pirates.
-Chris I call foul! Which ones are pirates? If you can't specify without just cause who you are referring to, then you should not even be insinuating such a thing.
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diafel
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:17 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:27 am
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chrisavis wrote: Anyone notice that elephant in the corner? earthling12357 wrote:
Key word – Certification
Entire forum – 622
Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum
Diafel – 7 out of 2206 .3% of own posts 1% of entire forum
Earthling12357 – 10 out of 963 1% of own posts 1.6% of entire forum
JoeChartreuse – 26 out of 2649 1% of own posts 4% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 2 out of 730 .2% of own posts .3% of entire forum
c. staley - 53
Key word – Certified
Entire forum – 1427
Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum
Diafel 8 out of 2206 3.6% of own posts 1.2% of entire forum
Earthling12357 28 out of 963 2.9% of own posts 1.9% of entire forum
JoeChatreuse – 57 out of 2649 2.1% of own posts 3.9% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 20 out of 730 2.7% of own posts 1.4% of entire forum
c. staley - 152
Is there a reason you're dragging cstaley into this? He's no longer here to comment or defend himself. Besides, I do believe you were accusing ME of dragging this into every thread over and over again, not him. The proof is in the pudding here and dragging someone else in to try and deflect your erroneous accusations against me simply won't work. I do believe you owe myself and the rest of us an apology.
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srnitynow
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:35 pm |
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:00 pm
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Chris, first, I find it offensive that you would imply that the MAJORITY of posters on this site are pirates. (throw a dart, and you'll more than likely you hit a pirate). I personally have a disc for EVERY song I have, can you say the same? Actually, since we're talking about pirates on THIS forum, YOU (by your own admission) are the only person I can remember on this forum "actively" that has admitted to having pirated music. The circumstances are irrelevant, you bought a system with pirated music, then found a way to "legalize" that music. Had you come on here to ask advice, EVERYONE would have told you that you CANNOT use that music. so, before you start calling other kjs on this forum "pirates", you'd better check yourself first...
Srnitynow
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earthling12357
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:39 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:21 pm
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chrisavis wrote: Anyone notice that elephant in the corner? earthling12357 wrote:
Key word – Certification
Entire forum – 622
Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum
Diafel – 7 out of 2206 .3% of own posts 1% of entire forum
Earthling12357 – 10 out of 963 1% of own posts 1.6% of entire forum
JoeChartreuse – 26 out of 2649 1% of own posts 4% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 2 out of 730 .2% of own posts .3% of entire forum
c. staley - 53
Key word – Certified
Entire forum – 1427
Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum
Diafel 8 out of 2206 3.6% of own posts 1.2% of entire forum
Earthling12357 28 out of 963 2.9% of own posts 1.9% of entire forum
JoeChatreuse – 57 out of 2649 2.1% of own posts 3.9% of entire forum
Birdofsong – 20 out of 730 2.7% of own posts 1.4% of entire forum
c. staley - 152
Really? Notice the names I used were all active participants in this thread, I did not think it fair to bring up anyone who couldn't respond or hasn't shown interest in this discussion. Yet in spite of your success in your campaign to get Chip banned, you still feel a need to have a poke at him. Well, lets take a fair look at your elephant since you opted to not post the full data. Keyword - Certification Chrisavis – 68 out of 1131 6% of own posts 11% of entire forum C.Staley - 53 out of 2618 2% of own posts 8.5% of entire forum Keyword - Certified Chrisavis – 109 out of 1131 9.6% of own posts 7.6% of entire forum C.Staley - 152 out of 2618 5.8% of own posts 10.6% of entire forum Based on the percentage of one's own posts it is still clear that you are the one with an agenda. c. staley wrote: Nice try.
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jdmeister
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:56 pm |
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 7708
Songs: 1
Location: Hollyweird, Ca.
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This bickering needs to stop.. It's not productive in the least.
Locking in 10, 9, 8,
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