Karaoke Forums

...Have there been any lawsuits filed against any non-commercial/private home user purchases of pirated karaoke hard drives or is it just the kj's that are the targets?

How would they know you exist???? If they haven't seen displaying their trademark logo in public, they have no basis for a lawsuit against you.

I agree but when SC runs out of easy targets maybe they will go back and check out the customer lists of the hard drive sellers and start ringing people's door bells and insisting on seeing what is on their computer because they heard them singing from outside of the house.

....Bingo. This was the main reason the thread was started. Thought they were already going after the sellers. Maybe or do they just get a free pass?

Most consumers would not be a prospect for renting karaoke music.... still can't figure out why a KJ would but it's a personal decision it appears.

...I just figured they (those manufacturers that are filing the lawsuits) would want to be collecting some more monies by taking those pirates (HD Sellers) that were caught, put them under the "White Hot Spot Light" and demand that they give over the names, addresses, phone numbers, paypal accounts, etc. of each buyer so the Manufacturers could go after the buyers (commercial or private users) and demand a settlement. Wouldn't this be a way of recouping lost sells and educating the commercial venues and general public to Anti-Piracy? Especially if it made national headline news. The record industry does it every now and then.

I think that would fall somewhere in the lines of "receiving stolen goods," rather than Trademark. There is no civil suit here for the buyers of hard drives that use them in private, because there is no civil infraction until the trademark is witnessed in use in public.

Of course, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I wouldn't want to be accused of spreading "disinformation."

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Birdofsong

...I appreciate the response and would or do agree about the Trademark side but what about the copyright. Is this still not considered bootleg/piracy/stolen goods (IP)?

...I could also be wrong but, I thought I read somewhere (here or someplace else) that they (Karaoke Manufacturers) were going after the illegal hard drive sellers and the people that bought them...or again, is it just kj's?

...I think (?) I did hear (and perhaps it was HL) that copyright infringement suits are harder to make stick. I don't know? Just seems like they would be just as aggressive off of everyone who steals from them...Just pondering.

Putting people in jail produces no revenue. Fighting piracy, for the umpteenth time, is not the goal. That would dry up the revenue stream.

Yes, we have been going after illegal hard drive sellers. For various reasons, we are not allowed to publicize our activities in that regard.


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Copyright infringement is harder to prove and subject to more defenses than trademark infringement. If, for some reason, we had to go the route of copyright, we would be able to do so. But we don't need to, so we don't, because the outcome is the same.

...Rick, I would not deny that it's like shooting fish (KJ/Venue) in a barrel for SC. Even if some of those fish (KJ/Venue) might be legal customers who just happened to have gotten mistakenly shot/caught up in the fishing trip.

...Do I believe that those KJ's that were mistakenly taken down should have to pay for an audit or even a KJ that volunteers for an audit and be charged an audit fee? Nope and why? Because those KJ's have proven to be loyal paying customers and NOT every KJ visits these forums or knows what's going on with these lawsuits. Plus, it wasn't a legal KJ's fault for the current state of pirates.

...For those that are caught and are proven to be illegal, I do believe they should pay a great deal more than the current SC Gem Series Price being offered, which would still be a lot less than what SC could ask for. If I were SC, I would offer them a settlement of double what the GEM Series is being sold for.
...If the KJ is currently illegal but decides to purchase before getting caught up in a suit, then that KJ could purchase SC's GEM Series at the normal price (getting legal before getting caught).

...Didn't mean to somewhat get off the subject or your response, Rick. But I do believe that sound choice has lost revenues to not only the Illegal HD Sellers but also their (Illegal HD Seller's) Customers. I would just find it a little hard to believe that every Illegal Loaded HD purchaser is a KJ. I believe there has to be private home users who have also purchased these drives and should be sought after and made to settle one way or another. Forced to pay a fine? Forced to settle by purchasing something through SC legally, if SC wants them as a customer, etc.

...Maybe I'm wrong but I thought stealing was stealing, regardless if it's a private or commercial sell.

There is a cost associated with doing audits.

The people who have conducted a media-shift without permission might only be "technical infringers," but they are still infringers. Being required to pay $500 for the purpose of getting fully legal under those circumstances is hardly unjust. We have been doing this long enough, and with enough warnings, that the people who have conducted an unauthorized media-shift know what is required to get/stay legal.



The settlement prices are already more than double what the GEM series is being sold for, at least at the number of tracks they are receiving. And it is about to get even more expensive.



The problem is that while the HD sellers make a pretty good living by stealing SC's (and every other manu's) products, they tend not to keep good business records, so it is difficult to identify their users. This is particularly true when--as is often the case--the purchase was anonymous and for cash.

You honestly believe that?

Then why are there so many venues, KJ's and singers in my areas that don't even know what the term media-shift means?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

...Thanks hiteck. I have asked the same to several KJ's and all I ever get is, "what the heck are you talking about?"

Then they need to do a better job of keeping up with the industry that they are operating in. Trademark infringement is a strict liability offense.

I agree they should do a better job of keeping up with the industry, but that doesn't mean that you or SC has done this "long enough or with enough warnings" to ensure that they do in fact know.

Why do you think time and time again I've asked why manu's aren't doing a better job of providing more information and keeping it current on their websites? Many also need to a better job of making it more prominent on their sites.


BTW- The local B&M retailers aren't spreading the gospel either.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

...Well, unfortunately there's not an organization set up to not only protect Manufacturers but KJ's and Venues. Some type of site that would have an "All-In-One Audit System" for KJ's but also one that could post what is actually legally approved to purchase (Media: cdg's, sd cards, mp3 discs, hd's, downloads, etc.). Which karaoke manufacturers have approved tracks to produce. Plus a place where their approved "Authorized Dealers" could be posted. Sometimes it feels like it's some type of a secret society.

...For the KJ (the one who is doing their best to stay legal), it's like buy at your own risk.

...Sorry hiteck, don't mean to be posting over you. Almost the same points...

I'm not sure a "Hard Drive Pirate" keeps sales records of illegal transactions.

It seems like the chance of the Police finding a database or Excel file listing buyers with addresses seems slim..

...Well jd, in the last year or so, I was following one of those Illegal Hard Drives Seller Cases. I think he was out of California. Almost positive that SC was on his tail for several years before they broke the case. Somewhere I read that SC was going through all of his computers (laptops, desktops, hard drives, etc.) and of course his Paypal Account and they were going after those who purchased a Loaded HD. They had personal info on every Paypal Transaction of each buyer. To me, I thought this was easy to prove and was going to be a gold mine for SC.
...Maybe I was wrong but it was listed on a few different sites and was "Big News" in and around Karaoke sites and distributors that I talked with. From what I read, it took several years of surveillance to get him. I thought SC cleaned him out? Maybe I'm wrong?

Well then.. maybe he is the stupid one for two reasons.. Selling and knowing he's illegal, leaving a trail..