Karaoke Forums

It's called principles. It's not allowing yourself to be pushed around at any cost. It's still believing that I live in a country where I'm not guilty until proven innocent. Do you need any more reasons?

Isn't that being a bit hypocritical? I would think that if one is so verbal about not wanting to use or ever buy (again) another SC product, that one wouldn't use it at all, be it at your own show or at someone else's show.

On one hand, you say that you won't use SC at your shows, not so much for (possible) fear of being sued, but because you don't like them telling you what you can and can not do with your legally purchased product. You have also stated that you don't want/like them (SC) looking over your shoulder, and you don't like their business practice of suing all these KJs.


Yet, on the other hand, you say that you happily use these same discs at someone else's show, thus putting those KJs under the watchful eye of SC, and placing them at risk of being sued for your actions.

Not hypocritical. My buddy uses discs. I don't, nor do I intend to. If I were to use my Sound Choice in my shows, (which, for now are fill ins for my friend), I could get messed up with their inspectors just because I run everything else off the computer. They see a Sound Choice mark come up, they might make the mistake of naming me in a suit because of the computer stuff. My friend uses only discs. I have two computers when I work. One runs my karaoke and one runs DJ music.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

My problem is not with the audit or cost. It is the continued disrespect shown in the policies involved.

Yes I have experienced this around here - NONE of those kj's actually had/or run discs to back their computer up, so I can understand why they would dump their SC tracks to begin with. Hopefully the new owners of the CB label will have the same effect with those kj's as well.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Then use the discs in their intended format, don't shift them & you will be fine!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No. I would rather not.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I find disk players to be unreliable. More than one I had was vibration sensitive and would skip, even on brand new disks. Very annoying and I did eventually lose a job due to problems with disks. Never again. I have the disks and am more than willing to show, just don't see the need for anyone to be treated like a criminal on probation just because they shifted, even after proving compliance.

How would you feel if American DJ, Chauvet, Yamaha, Shure, DBX sent you a letter stating they have changed their policies and you do not have permission to display their Trademarked logo in a commercial setting. Feel free to use the product as intended but if the Trademark is in any way visible to the general public you will have to pay each one of them $150. Can't have the general public confused in thinking you are representing them or somehow sponsored by them.

Would you chalk that up to no big deal, just the cost of doing business?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Well if someone doesn't want to use a particular product, that is their right.

But in my opinion, the 'I bought it I should be able to do whatever the hell i want' mentality just don't hold water.

Like it or not, until it is proven otherwise in a court of law in a tried case the laws seem to reflect the fact that you cannot media shift COMMERCIALLY without permission.

Which means if a company wants to charge to give you this permission, they have every right. If you don't agree with a companies policies, don't use their product.

Which is exactly what some people have done. I don't see a problem with EITHER person's opinion.


As for someone dumping music they have paid for. When i was doing my own shows I did that quite a bit, as every time I had the money I like to upgrade the versions I have for songs that get sung but in my opinion, I have a really crappy version of.

I am currently trying to replace that 40% of my SAVP collection that are not repeats.

Also to the best of my knowledge the whole idea of 'innocent until proven guilty' only holds water for criminal trials. to the best of my knowledge, as long as the person has a reasonable amount of evidence to file the suit in the first place, the burden of proof falls on the person who is being sued.

I could be wrong, I have never had to be in a courtroom in my entire life.

If I ever got back to doing my own shows, I would get the soundchoice audit and even pay the yearly fee if that's what it took to use their product. Why?

1. Everyone I have personally talked to who has either voluntarily purchased the GEM series or done an audit has relayed a pleasant painless experience

2. To date, Kurt has been nothing but curteous, professional and even downright helpful in all of my communication with him. There are not many companies that have made millions of dollars at what they do where you can reach the owner or CEO personally.

3. I like the product they made, some of the country they have done is truly excellent, their rock tracks are better than even the original artist recording *in my opinion* and there are some really rare oldies that no one else did tracks of.

In a similar vain, soundschoice has done absolutely nothing to me personally. All their current policies are based on business and past experience *altho some disagree on what that business is now but that's a separate argument* and are not an opinion of what someone might personally think of me.

Have they made mistakes? Yes, quite a few. People who are the first to do something WILL make the most mistakes. But that is in the past and you can't do anything about the past. You can only move forward

Conversely if I were to go back into becoming a host, I would NOT get an audit from whomever holds the trademark and copyright for chartbuster. Why?

1. Every single time I have tried to get an answer or issue resolved, I was given the runaround. Several times I have had to phone people and spend 1 hour on hold AT MY OWN EXPENSE before I was able to find someone who was able to look into my problems, some of them were never resolved at all.

2. Every time they got their website working and I was able to use it to order things like custom discs, they'd go and change everything and muck it all up again.

just my take on this whole thing, from my own personal experience.. Your milage may vary

You've given three examples of ways that companies DON'T enforce intellectual property rights by inspecting their customers.

Would you mind if I gave three examples of ways that companies DO enforce intellectual property rights by inspecting their customers, and in fact take action against their customers when they exceed the scope of what has been paid for?

If I made a ***copy***of an American DJ Light rig, a Chauvet Laser, a Yamaha soundboard, a Shure Mic, a DBX sound processor - complete down to the trademark logo - I should expect to receive more than a letter.

We all know that the Trademark lawsuits are a means to an end to deal with the issue of unauthorized copying, duplication and use of stolen karaoke music. It is an indirect solution to a very real problem.

What you and many other people are not distinquishing against is using the original merchandise in the means it was intended to be used vs making a copy of the original and using that instead.

Use an original Sound Choice disc in a disc player and there is no problem. You have the original in your posession and it it pretty clear you are using it as intended.

Use a copy of the original in a disc player or on a computer and there arises the question of whether the original is owned by the same person that has the copy. The company that produced the original has every right to question how the copy was produced and determine whether the copy can continue to be used or not. The person using the copy should be able to prove they have the original when proof is asked for.


-Chris

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-Chris

WRONG.

The foul part is:
You are forced into and audit and then PAY $500.00 to do so!!!!!

The harm part is:
You have been name in a law suit!!!!!
Many banks will not make a Business Loan with someone that has been named in a Law Suit connected with doing business.
Many business might not do business with you if you have been named in a Law Suit as they don't want YOUR NAME connected to their business.
Doesn't matter that the suit has been dropped all people remember is you were accused!

Might not be as bad if you were named in a Murder investigation and then cleared but people will just remember you were named.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

so Lone Wolf le'ts say someone was concerned that what you are saying may be true......wouldn"t that be all the more reason to stay legal by either 1. Getting certified before being named 2. Using original manufactures disc's or 3. not using any of the questionalable trademarked tracks?

Just askin'

Blessings
Athena

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

There is no law that says I can't make a working copy of an original karaoke disc and use it in a commercial environment. If there was SC would be suing for copyright infringement instead of using the trademark approach.

I understand SC's situation, but I didn't put them there. I didn't steal their music and I don't attend shows that I know are run by pirates. I'm in no way knowingly supporting piracy in any way.

I have no issue with proving I own the discs for the SC tracks I have. I believe its about 98 disks and there's a couple of photos on the board somewhere. I'll be happy to take a pic of each one of them separately if you'd like.

I do have issue with being considered a pirate until I pay $125, go through an audit and sign the exact same CNS that is used for pirates.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

So if something is a trademark infringement, but not a copyright infringement, that means there is no law against it?

Every court that has been asked the question--and that question has been asked of courts in North Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Arizona, and New Jersey, at least--has found that the facts we allege are sufficient to support a claim for trademark infringement. No court has ruled otherwise. Thus, there is a law that says you can't make a working copy of an original karaoke disc and use it in a commercial environment. It's call the Lanham Act.

We could bring claims for copyright infringement, but as a strategic matter, we find those claims to be unnecessarily complicated. Liability under the Lanham Act is clear and uncomplicated.



We don't consider you to be a pirate. We consider you to be an unverified media-shifter, which means that you could be a pirate, or you could not be.

I didn't say there was no law or bases for a suit against trademark infringement. I also don't believe you really care about the unauthorized use of the SC logo, but are using that for the basis of a suit to determine who is and who isn't a pirate. I'm honestly ok with that, but....

I just want to voluntarily show that I own my disks to verify that I am not a pirate. Once I've shown I'm not then I see no reason to worry about me using them in a media shifted format.

Tell me again why the audit costs $125? If it's for the banner, t-shirt, other marketing materials and listing on the website I can do without those items.



Unverified media-shifter? I'm not even hosting karaoke due to the audit/cert stuff so I really I don't qualify for that title either.

Personally I'd just rather be considered a valued customer.

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

I used players for 15 years with never a problem?? Which models were you using. The cheaper ones would exhibit problems but they also were not commercial players made to used in mobile set-ups.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

You mean COPIED trademarked logo! I'm sure they have absolutely no problem if it was on an authentic piece! I'm sure they would have a big problem if it was something you made & resembled something they made and slapped their logo on it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Time is not free. And before you flip it claiming that your time isn't free either, consider that for the person audited, it is a one time occurence. You may give up a couple of hours and then you are done with it.Those doing the auditing are repeating the process over and over and have to continually dedicate resources to it. There is a cost associated with that.

-Chris

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-Chris