Karaoke Forums

Okay...

Seeing that there are so many knowledgeable people about the music industry here (At least I think), I have a question to see what you all think......

Okay.......Kalan Porter was our Canadian Idol. He released his song the next day, just like every other idol did.

Now, what happens is that the top 3 all record the "First Single" that the Idol releases when he/she wins so that they can play it ASAP after the winner is crowned.

Now, what happened is one of our local radio stations got ahold of Jacob's version (he was the 3rd runner up) of the song. They played the whole thing on the radio the other day knowing that it was wrong.

They are also still plaing clips of Jacob's version of the Idol Winner's song on the radio.

Anyway, this now has everyone up in a bunch. People emailing BMG, the radio station, etc. etc. complaining that they should be sued, etc. etc....

Roumers were that the song was recorded by all three finalists, and all three were given a copy (which, if that was the case, is asking for disaster anyway). Jacob's copy was "apparently" stolen from his backback and now it is also posted all over the internet (ie. Kazza, Limewire, etc).

What do you think are the laws on this, and how should it be handled (ie. should the radio station that played the song get sued). I personally think everyone is freaking out over nothing cause Idolists (aside from Kelly) don't usually seem to last long in the business..... And, eventually, they all come into their own fame somehow anyway, just because of the show, wheather they came in on top, or were the first out of the 10 ousted.

Thanks guys

everyone knows canada doesn't count JK... what is the conversion rate of canadian idol to american idol??? seriously, I think the hardware of today is gonna create ALOT situations like this... people can record directly from TV, Radio, streamcasts etc using a number of legal hardware available out there... I remember watching Nashville Star LIVE on a saturday night and being able to get damn near cd quality rips of the songs performed live the next day on peer to peer networks... you have TiVO availabe, video and audio capture cards... the list is endless for people to record and then convert to a digital format and "share" online... the industry has created this two headed monster and i feel no sympathy to them... just a few thoughts- tig

Canadian copyright/licensing is very different from the comparable American laws/licensing. I've seen this in just a few small instances where I did some review of legal precendence as well as in circumstances posted on this and a few other boards. That being said...

There are likely repurcussions for the radio station for playing a song that's not 'officially' released but only if it violates the licensing or copyright laws.

'Stolen' from his backpack? Possible, but not likely. Given the continued playback chances are he worked out a deal with the radio station and they're enjoying the controversy now because it's likely drawing interest in the station which drives up advertising revenue.

I can't be of much help - mainly becuse the laws are very different between the US and Canada. Even the licensing varies greatly. For example there is a surcharge on all recordable media in Canada that's paid to media licensing organizations. IIRC this was not passed in the US or was defeated a number of years ago.


BTW, in the US you can record and playback TV/Radio shows later because of the BetaMax lawsuit from years ago. It's been a thorn in the side of the recording industry for many years and they're trying ot get a Digital Rights Management bill through congress to prevent you from recording XM/Sirius Radio (saw an article on this recently) digitally and sharing.

Thanks!

I don't think that they are conspiring...just because Kalan is from Alberta, and the radio station is in Edmonton, Alberta. I think it was more because the Jacob fans wanted to hear it (Although I am sure they are enjoying the attention that is now being paid to the station).

They started out by playing a clip of the song, and then all the listeners called in and begged them to play the song. Even though they knew it was wrong, and they were going to suffer serious reprecussions, they did it anyway.

I am not too sure about the copyright issue.....if they let all three of them record it, I am not sure how that works. It is just very interesting...and I can't wait to see how it pans out.

Thank you for your thoughts

Ritziroo,
Keep an Eye on the case of Century Decca Records (USA) -vs- Adam Knight Music Group (USA) as it also contains an issue of Record Piracy and Copyright Infringement on Brian Douglas' Song "Livin It Up (On My Way Down)" as Century Decca Records - Nashville (who is the owner of the song) contests that Knight's Group has possession of a master copy and promoting the song Illigally without proper license and is replicating the single presently for Distribution without permission. There are other issues in this case but this is the one pertaining to this thread and also 31 other artists/songwriters are involved in this case.

This should be interesting and messy.

_________________
And nothin's better than
huggin' a "Papa Bear"

If Nashville is the owner of the song, then how is it possible for Knight's Group to have the master copy?!?!? Clearly there is some serious back-stabbing going on here? Is it possible that some-one was trying to get his bread buttered on both sides by giving out a master copy to Knight's Group company should Nashville fail for any reason?

I have to agree with you on this one (Shock and Horror did I say that?)

The B.S. meter is really off the charts on this one.

BHB or "PapaBear" hs really outdone himself this time......but then again he always could spin quite a yarn.

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Too soon old......too late smart.

I will defintely look for that case

The only difference in our case is this:

All three finalists were GIVEN a copy of the song...on a CD, so a hard copy, after they had song the song, for a souvenier.

Canadian Idol is sooooo wanting to get the song out the next day that they have them all record it.

What happened is a copy got "stolen" out of the loser's backpack, and got distributed on the internet.

Some Average Joe downloaded copy and let the radio station have it. The radio station, knowing that they would be in trouble, played it anyway.

So then, all hell broke loose because all the "Kalan" (winner of CI) fans freaked out, stating that "this is going to ruin his carreer", "Jacob (the one who's version was stolen) is just jelous he lost", blah blah blah.

So basically, it BMG can be partially responsible as who is dumb enough to give out copies of the winner's song? If they wanted to give them souveniers, then it should be something else.

Also, there is really no reason as to why they have to relase the song the day after the winner is announced. I am sure the fans could wait at least one week to hear the song.

It is just a big smoz. I think it is funny, and what it basically is is 13 year old girls upset because heaven forbid....

Actually it's a great PR exercise. THE CI guys by what I believe are orchestrating this, has generated a lot of media interest and hype and therefore bringing their people to the forefront and thus they will be increasing record sales for those who have cut an album.

Really folks a one time play in a western city wouldn't cause a ruckus, that is until the media got involved. Again a great PR exercise.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

That makes a lot of sense. The more scandal you can create for yourself the more media attention you get and as a result, sell more of the product you are selling. It's a very tried and true marketing techinique. Look waht it did for Madonna, Jennifer Lopez & Paris Hilton just to name a few.

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Too soon old......too late smart.

I cannot comment about this case at all as much as I really would like to... And I really would love to share my personal feelings on this.. This is my first day back on this board I will not enter into a arguement with anyone over something legal or trivial. Nor will I enter a Flame war with people who are aspiring professionals. As I promised Phill, I am here to have fun and sing. My word to him will hold. And the truth in this case will come out in the courtroom. The rest of the people that talk about this case, that are not directly involved in this case are all speculating based on hearsay.

Brian Douglas
(BHB)

at BHB!

I am just asking this cause there are SOOOO many young kids on the CI Forum that think they know everything about everything (which they don't)!

It is hard to "debate" pepole when you don't have any legal backing you up.

Everyone on that site is emailing the poor station, and quite surly, telling them off.

It is nice to know people's stance on this...as long as they can back it up with something...and skip the hearsay (which is something that they don't do there!!)

Plus, I know there are some very smart people here that can help me!

Now, I have no idea what's happened in here in the past. I just read the thread with the comments by Allstar about "being one of us" and checking the ego at the door. And you agreed to do that.

So the first post I see from you outside of the thread is the above. A mildy passive aggressive way of you showing that you're some sort of insider, that you know stuff that we don't, but you couldn't possibly talk about it, and that everyone else who talks about it are just speculating based on heresay.

If that's your way of showing yourself to being "one of the crowd" , I gotta tell you that you're off to a crappy start. What is the point of making a post like that other than to impress us with your supposed insider knowledge?

If you can't say anything then don't say anything. Posts like the one that you just made are obviously just to stroke your own ego, which you've supposedly checked at the door. You may want to chain it to the door because it looks like it escaped and followed you in here.

But on the plus side, I now have a much better understanding of Allstar's comments

Posting that was my way of saying... "unless you are one of the DIRECT people involved in the situation. Please do not comment on it." it only gets you in trouble with those who are. I can say this with all comfort and without reserve... All those who have made direct commentary on our case attempting to fan the flames have been noticed by our attorneys. 3 websites were removed today. One of them was one of our own artist's sites. I don't wish any harm on anyone in any way. This was a very unfortinate situation, I do not know the other case in detail that Ritisroo has spoke of and don't wish to, it's all dumb. It's people crushing other people's dreams just to make a dollar or to achieve fame or power. It really makes me want to walk away from the music industry all together, and I have done it once before and I will do it again... alot of people know it too.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Newsflash, what YOU think people should be discussing on this board or in this thread really isn't important. If people want to discuss this Canadian Idol story they can, even if it's all just speculation and heresay and theory and gossip. If the moderator of the board thinks it's inappropriate I'm sure he'll take care of it.

So what does YOUR case have to do with the Canadian Idol situation anyway? Your post implied to me that you had some knowledge about this particular situation, but now you're telling me that's not even the case? You were just randomly hikacking this thread to make it about you? I don't recall anybody talking about your situation in this thread, if you don't want it discussed why on earth would you bring it up, out of the blue, in the first place?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't even realize that you're doing it, but to me it definitely makes you appear like an egomaniac. If your goal isn't to look that way I'd strongly suggest that if you don't think something should be discussed in here, simply don't discuss it. Don't drag things into a thread out of nowhere, talk about them, then say we shouldn't be talking about them.

And if you do bring it up, make sure it's relevant to the thread. I somehow find it hard to believe that your case is anything other than tangentally similar to the original topic of this thread, the leak of the 3rd place Canadian Idol finalist's song being leaked to the radio.
Or at least clarify which contest or TV show you were in, and which country it took place in, so I can understand the similarities here.

I will make it totally clear then in both cases you missed it then. and I this very made clear to my label... Which I'm sure I really P****d them off for saying it. And I really don't care as they have been paid for the legal and Mechanical Rights for me to record and publically release the songs I do sing. IN BOTH CASES... It sounds like another clear case of people being dumb over money, fame, someone's dreams, or power in the industry. And someone's feeling's have been hurt. Only the attorneys get rich in these cases, and nobody wins. Tempers flare... Also it ruins a perfectly great opportunity for alot of great talent to be noticed at all levels.

But that is my personal opinion. Like it or not.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Strange how this thread started about CI and all of a sudden it got hijacked and is about Brian's problem. Brian if you have a problem, quit hijacking threads and start your own one.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

ARGH!

All I wanted to know if the RADIO Station was doing something wrong by playing a "leaked, unreleased" song.

BMG Had them all record it. BMG Gave the ALL A COPY to keep as a souvenier.

Jacob's got stolen, and leaked to the internet. I just want to know why this is illegal and if BMG has any responsibility as they were the dumb ones to hand out the copies in the first place!

I am not a laywer, nor do I have any any idea as to how the music world work when it comes to copywriting.

I just want to learn! Perhaps a link to some law site...or another radio station who has played illegal copies of songs...not have everyone argue over their personal problems!

I am sorry this got into a spat over everyone's personal problems.

Anyway, the problem is over now, the radio station got a stern warning about playing the song, and no one got sued.

This is closed.

Hmmm..... that makes it even more suspicious. The fact that it was all dropped just like that makes me think even more that it was probably a PR stunt.

I'm no legal expert but I would imagine that the contestants probably signed huge legal documents informing them of what they could and couldn't do while they were participating in the competition. I think they have morality clauses and other contractual obligations. Like on other reality shows where they sign contracts to say they won't disclose the results of the show until it airs, since they're all pre-taped. The CI people may have written into the contract that they would provide the contestants with a copy of their performance with restrictions on what they could do with it. If that's the case then they could certainly bring legal action against someone who didn't comply with the contract. In this case the issue is the "stolen" CD. It would probably come down to proving that the info was leaked intentionally.

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Too soon old......too late smart.

Ritisroo,
This not my ego talking but before I do say this... (incase some don't know or have forgotten.) Yes, I have worked in US radio in a smaller station in a major market as well... Technically and legally (for all I do know know YES! it is not right to release a song and is "illegal" to release a song that is "leaked / Unreleased" without proper permission. It depending on the Jursitiction could be called Copyright Infringement, or any number of things depending on Who the licensees or songwriters and the parties involved. Yes again, I can understand your frustration and I'm sure this will be a while before this one too will be straightened out.

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Brian D.
(BHB)