Karaoke Forums

Chip, I think our difference of opinion lies right here.

I believe that it is reasonable.

It starts with an unauthorized copy. It continues with the commercial use of that copy.

SC CD+G's are sold with the prohibition of unauthorized copying and distribution.

The trademark that has been copied is irrefutable. If the file is on a computer, it is in fact a copy whose source either directly or through one or more intermediaries is an OEM SC CD+G.

I can prove that I own an original mfr's CD+G for every SC track I possess (GEMS too, but they are not CD+G) and I don't have a problem verifying that fact.

I don't believe it would be reasonable to fight a court case if I were to be named when I can successfully have my name dropped from a suit by providing proof of possession of OEM discs.

I believe it is an exaggeration and a distortion of the facts to accuse SC of suing the general population. Not a single defendant has denied the fact that they are producing karaoke entertainment shows. This is a fraction of a percentage of the general population.

The point is moot. I pro-actively contacted SC & CB to forestall any action should they ever expand their scope of activity to Colorado. I strongly encourage legitimate KJ's to consider a course of action that to all intents and purposes eliminates the threat of being joined in a lawsuit and still allows you to use the high quality product produced by these mfr's.

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Never the same show twice!

I would for one, and I'm mfr. disc based. Why? Who is SC to demand my time and effort FOR FREE?

If they offer to pay my private event rate, I MIGHT comply, but no one OWES this mini-corp. ANYTHING. The IRS can demand, a government authorized enforcement agency can demand. SC? If they want my time and energy, they pay for it like anyone else.

I would also add the an audit is of absolutely no benefit to the KJ. It is a tool of discovery for SC and nothing else- There is no "immunity" afterward. They could come back every 2 weeks if they feel like it. Do you want to give up billable hours on their whim?


Also- and I have brought this up in the past: Why shouldn't SC pay incorrectly / untruthfully named KJs the settlement amount that THEY demand for defaming them? Say $7,500 and a free GEM set for those who would want it, or equal value? I believe that their "investigative" techniques would improve dramatically before naming if that were the case- don't you?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Nope sorry. A judge isn't going to rule for a judgment willy nilly without the facts. To get the facts he or she will call for some evidence. A judge isn't going to award $1,000,000 for a stubbed toe just because the Defendant fails to show up.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

What if the defendent shows up and the plaintiff doesn't. Sounds like a possibility doesn't it?? Especially if the defendent is legally innocent before default.

Mr marog

The plaintiff shows by virtue of their complaint. A default happens when a defendant doesn't answer.

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Birdofsong

Birdofsong is again wrong. If the Plaintiff fails to appear, in the vast majority of cases, the case will be dismissed Without Prejudice.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

What on earth are you talking about?

Here's how it works.

1. Plaintiff files Complaint.
2. Defendant does not answer Complaint.
3. Plaintiff files Default.
4. Court enters Default (this is different than a Default Judgment, btw)
5. Plaintiff files Motion for Default Judgment asking for a monetary assessment against Defendant.
6. Court hears Motion.
7. With minimal argument, the Court generally enters a Default Judgment assessing an amount commensurate with the type of case that is before them -- oftentimes the full amount of an insurance policy, for example.

The word "appear" is figurative. We're not talking about a court hearing. We're talking about responding to papers filed in court.

I've been working in the legal field in the states for about 17 years. I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Birdofsong

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Birdofsong

Joe, with all due respect, you are indicating a necessary suspension of disbelief. You yourself have stated that you've always been and will remain disc based and that you have your discs on display during your show. There is absolutely no reasonable indication that someone would witness your show and then file suit stating that you used a computer to display a counterfeit trademark.



You haven't transferred their IP. You haven't displayed that copy using a computer as a source. If you had, then you would have a Judge of the District Court compelling you to comply with discovery. Authorized enough for you? Again, the point is moot. You haven't committed the trademark infringement that they are suing people for. Your indignation and accusations are founded on hypothesis and suppositions. Some of which I find to be laughable.



For example: "They could come back every two weeks if they feel like it."
Patently ridiculous. First, if you participated in an audit and passed, why would they bother? Consider the time and expense that would entail. It's silly to predict that they would expend the energy to harass a legitimate KJ after the fact. Give it up. Not one single KJ that has passed and audit or signed a license agreement and kept to the terms has had SC come back after them on a whim.



Yeah, you've brought that up in the past. You've also been told that naming someone in a suit is not defamation. It is a court action that every citizen & corporation in this country can initiate. You don't want to be named? Notify SC & CB & PHM before you make the media shift (the one YOU will never make). Want to run the risk of being named? Make the media shift without permission and wait for an investigator to attend your show. Already made the media shift? Contact the manufacturers whose product you've copied before they contact you. Why is that so difficult for you to accept. You claim, as I do, to be legit. Why is your reaction to be defensive and adversarial when, presumably, you want the same things that any legit operator wants? Namely a reduction in the number of illicit KJ's in and coming into this industry. I also believe that their investigative techniques will logically improve as their investigators gain experience with karaoke entertainment. From what I've seen, the investigators are the weakest link in the chain.

Honestly, I believe that if you are legit and you concerned with the possibility of being named, it would be wise to get permission to rip your CD+G's (retroactively if necessary) so that you may use them in a show without fear of being named or prosecuted. I believe in being practical about business. You act like that most of the time, but for some reason, you throw practicability out the window when it comes to SC.

The fact is, I'll never have to worry about being named because I did exactly as I suggest here. Problem solved.

Had I been named in the past, I truly would have been concerned, but also vindicated much like KjAthena. In fact, it was KjAthena's case with SC that made me aware of the risk I was taking by running 5 shows a week from my laptop even though I had thousands of discs in my possession. I realized that SC or any other mfr, would have no way to verify that unless I brought my discs to a show or invited an investigator to my office where the discs are stored. I realized the the truth was that I had not obtained any permission to make, shift or use the copies of those tracks. I see the whole area as "gray", but my instincts tell me that if I do this, I've covered my bases. So far... so good.

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Never the same show twice!

1) The KJ at Mcleod's was disc based, yet SC went after him. No suspension of belief- though agree that the likelihood of them doing it again has diminished thanks to some embarrassment via the local press. However, I am not the only Karaoke Host in the world ( just the most charming and humble... ) and my reasoning is meant for the hosting genpop, many of whom are PC based.


2) You quoted my statement about being PAID FOR MY TIME, yet the reply to this was actually an addition to number one. How do you feel about getting paid for audit time?

3) Agreed, coming back every 2 weeks would be ridiculous- but what legally keeps them from doing so? A harrassment suit? How about every 3 months? 6? How many interruptions in one's life and business are acceptable?

4) How about we agree to disagree here. The defamation thing has been debated to death, and no one has changed their mind...

Allow me to re-phrase: How do you feel about SC compensating those KJs wrongly accused and put through the stress, time and energy usage that they shouldn't have been? Also, if they did do this, would it not be a deterrent to more false accusations, and maybe force SC to investigate more carefully beforehand?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."