Karaoke Forums

What if KJ's agreed to exchange their respected CDG's back to the manufacturers who want to do audits for rendered computer databases of the songs?

Would the manufacturers still have masters of their entire library (ie: SC8125) so to be able to give me back one copy of the work rendered to let's say a .bin or .cdg file? This way I'm back to only having an original. The manufacturer can encrypt & encode an identifying signature on the files to keep me from copying them & hold my inventory list of songs for back-up if what I use at my shows are lost or damaged. Of course this would instill a huge amount of trust on the KJ's part with the manufacturer but this is merely just an idea to kick around. Also there would have to be something in place if the KJ decided to sell their inventory.

I'm aware that there are huge holes in this idea but maybe everyone can come to some middle ground with this possible solution to the insanity!

I welcome Joe's & Chip's input on this, as if I humbly can, offer up an olive branch. The whole issue is driving me insane!

P.S. It is a great day for the free world. Rest In Hell Bin Laden.....

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I would prefer not to do that as I want my physical discs if nothing else for backup purposes - if my computer goes down, I revert to discs - no down time or lost nights.
If it became a choice i'd HAVE to make, i'd probably stay with discs and get my machines back in top notch order or get new ones.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Okay Lon. Makes sense.

Maybe something like the GEM discs (NOT ADVERTISING) to have in your possession in case there is a crash.

I don't own any GEM's. However I have many PHM MP3G discs which was a simple drag & drop. I would prefer .bin or .cdg files though.

So still it would be 1:1 but encrypted or something.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Economically not a good deal. I paid almost $40 each for an SC disc ($2.66 per song) for what they are now charging less than a dollar. Digital information isn't biodegradable.

There's no advantage for me in this deal. It's all in favor of the manufacturers who would like to remove all cd+g discs and simply lease/control the supply.

Why else would SC be so willing to "buy back" a disc or credit them as they have done with Bazza? It's not like they are going to resell it.

Sorry but I would respectfully decline the offer. I'd cite Lonman's security position as another good reason to never part with discs. You've already bought and paid for them in full once, there's no reason to continue to pay for them over and over again.

And, as I mentioned before; the manufacturers were offered a "lockable" computer format for karaoke 10 years ago and they staunchly refused it.

You're right, it may not be biodegradable but it is certainly degradable by other means.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Thanks Chip. I too paid top dollar in the day so I feel your pain.

As I said, many holes in the idea.

More suggestions anyone?

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Sure, how about a "better than straight exchange?"

The are currently charging $0.67/song and I paid $2.66/song so for every disc they want back, I get an equivalent value in songs that I've already paid for using standard rounding rules.

39.95/.67= 59.62 songs rounded to 60.

Let them go back through their records and show the retail prices for Spotlight discs based on number.

I see your point Chip. I'm just suggesting an exchange of song for song without any leasing fees. But getting 60 songs vs 15 from the old $39.95 price would be a great deal for sure.

I got in the game when SC retail price was $27.95. Also through the years I've gotten great deals on bulk ebaY purchases as well so it would be hard to estimate the exact price on average of what I paid. I'd say $1 a song is probably the average & easier to calculate. With all the duplicates across all manu's over $32k for sure!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

I think my first Sound Choice cdg cost me 32.95.

I like some of this idea however the biggest problem would with partial transfers...ie bulk sales and purchasing. You could sell the entire business easy enough but not lots of 50 discs...we buy/sell/trade a lot

Also what would happen with "orphan labels"


Good idea to brainstorm...wish I had a suggestion for an idea

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Then why would any manufacturer do this? What is the incentive? I already have both the electronic and the physical (backup) media.

What you are suggesting is a simple "surrender" of discs for what? A covenant not to sue? No deal, but thanks for asking.

The physical is media is what the manufacturers are after in this case.

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No way I am giving up my 8125!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

interesting idea, but i think i would still prefer discs. same reasons, i can always go back to discs if my drive fails. kinda the same reason i don't think i would go for the streaming idea presented months back. another hitch in many ideas like this though is what about all the other manus? we still have to have discs for say the DK 1-99 for example. no one to trade those in to. until all manus move to a new common format, i think we are kinda stuck.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

! Me neither! I paid for mine used & well over $39.95!

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Yes, these are some of the holes I imagined.

To clarify a bit if I may:

I'm only talking about manu's who want audits. Not the discontinued U.S. manu's like DK, All Hits etc... (Unless of course a current manu picks up the rights to these)

My understanding is that .bin & .cdg files are common for top quality sound vs a CD+G Disc.

So CB wants audit via Skype & wants to use a wood burning/soldering iron to mark the disc. This is an enormous amount of effort as well as possible damage to the discs. If I exchanged all my CD+G discs for replacement data discs on say a DVD disc that I can drag files with some signature or encoding to maintain some sort of accountability to the manu, it would streamline the process since they will physically have the disc to look at. Also it would cut down on inventory & make annual audits very quick.

Another hole would be risking the transport of my physical discs & cost of shipping. I could insure the UPS shipment but if lost, I would obviously have to re-buy & I'm not sure I want to loose 8125!

I don't know if CB & SC is still monitoring these forums but maybe they have an idea.

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"Just Say NO, To Justin Bieber & His Beatle Haircut"

Fat chance. They can't and won't do it. Even chartbuster refuses to show anything to substantiate their claim that they "purchased the catalog a few years back" and "registered the copyrights." They just might try to fool the unknowing, but it won't last long.


Screw that entire audit idea. They have no rights to "audit" anything. I bought my disc, I'm using it, they've been paid for it they can leave me alone. If they want to continue to pry into my business, I will pry back.
They are perfectly capable of hotstamping sequential numbers on the core of the disc as they are made. It's a simple solution: you're a pro? Simply email your registration numbers off your discs to the factory. They have control over marking an commercial authorization this way.

(no more "free" suggestions btw)

You shouldn't absorb any risk, they should because when it gets right down to it, they need you, you don't need them.

damn Chip, that is actually a really good idea. quick, simple, painless.
now that's the kind of constructive input that actually helps.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Thanks. However, this will cost the manufacturers a teensie bit extra (a lot less than doing a couple audits for thousands of discs) that shouldn't matter in the course of business....

It ain't rocket science... it's karaoke.

I really don't know if I can make a worthwhile addition here, since I'm disc based. However, Wall did discuss availability in .BIN or .CDG, so it's something I could work with.

First, the ideas that Wall came up with ( encryption/encoding for security and recognized ownership) have already been suggested to at least one mfr., who had no interest at that time. Maybe now, for later tracks?

A track for track exchange, as stated, wouldn't be fair to us old timers who paid bigger bucks back in the day.

I DO like Chip's suggestions regarding equalizing track value, and of using registration numbers from the discs. By sending lists to the mfrs., ownership can be authenticated, and no audit or exchange needed. A quick and easy solution.
However, one would have to constantly update, maybe through a place on the website? Also, depending on library size ( and eyesight ) the initial list might take a bit of time. Still, all in all a good idea.

I do wonder if the mfrs. would go for it though. As long as it would take for one KJ to make one list, imagine the man hours that would be used by the mfrs. entering all the lists from all the KJs..

I wish I could be more positive. I do believe Wall's idea would be great for future disc production, but except for Chip's idea of registering what we already own, I can think of nothing to be done after the fact ( for discs that we already own) that wouldn't be detrimental to the KJ in one way or another.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I thought about this... what about a self-destructing decal? The type that some states use for their license plate date stickers.

The adhesive would have to be non-harmful to the cd+g's label. You'd have to print a code # or a barcode which would be registered to each disc. Once the label is applied, it cannot be removed without damage and therefore invalidated.

The initial registration is made by estimating the number of cd+g's to be registered and then issuing coded labels. The code is then paired with a mfr's disc-id and registered in a database. Any leftover labels are either held for future registration or returned to be issued at a later date.

I'm also considering what it would take to create a clearing house independent of the mfrs. A registrar and secure storage facility?

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Never the same show twice!