Karaoke Forums

I agree.

If a venue asks you if you have original discs, what do you tell them?

If a venue asks to see your discs to verify your statement before hiring you, what do you do?

If a "competitor" approaches one of your venues and offers to do a show with 120,000 tracks, how do you respond to that?

Specifically, how do you communicate with your venue to differentiate the fact that owning original discs is required to be considered legit and/or certified?

It isn't about being innocent or guilty, it is about meeting a requirement to be legit.

To call yourself a karaoke provider/KJ/host and make money from that activity you must meet the minimum requirement of legal possession of licensed, manufacturers' product.

Wouldn't you agree?

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Never the same show twice!

I'd like to see that too.

Not based on this discussion... unless you are planning to go back to the old ways and use your discs instead of your computer.

Steven,

Paradigm is already a "certified" meaning their company has already shown that they have the origional disc in 1:1 relationship to what is on their hard drive, and this was certified by the manus.

I do, why do you ask?



Again, I would ask them why.





There is no response. It's entirely up to the venue isn't it? They are free to fire and hire whomever they like. I am not their business partner. If they feel someone else can do a better job and make them more money, it's well within their right to do so. Any show I do is not dependent on any specific library "size" or even brand.. If your show is based on your library or equipment then then I can understand how someone with a bigger library would make you feel threatened.



I don't. Because I don't consider SC's labels to be any type of legal credential at all whether you use the label "certified", "legit", "vetted", "legal" or anything else. Bar owners don't want to get involved in the karaoke "business" per se. They want someone in to do it and if it's too much of a legal hot potato, they'll simply leave it alone. This is what you haven't figured out yet.



You're right. It's not about innocent or guilty. But it's also not about meeting ANY VENDOR's "requirement" to be anything. You are attempting to make a couple of companys who have been SUED (and lost) for intellectual property THEFT (read as "piracy") in the millions like they are suddenly some kind of squeaky clean "authority." You might swallow that willingly, but I won't.



To call yourself a karaoke manufacturer/provider and make MILLIONS from that activity you must meet the minimum requirement of legally acquiring ALL valid licensing for the intellectual products BEFORE you resell and mark them as "Used by permission." Anything less would be fraud.

Wouldn't you agree?

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Never the same show twice!

Sandman,

Your forehead is bloody! Please stop before you knock yourself out over nothing!

anyone disc based can have the venues do an audit themself..disc by disc to insure they will not have a problem (not sure how many will take the time for a large library (just seeing a van load of cases wont work)...then cert is un-needed.........Trivia will never replace Karaoke here...its been tried and failed a horrible death

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
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"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

That's all that is being said here. Can on operator that just runs discs only - no computer, be certified as well. Why is it limited to computer operators - or is it that disc users just haven't done so yet.

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i think being disc based counts just the same as 1:1. i also think showing those discs so they can be seen as originals, just like the PC hosts do, is fair as well. i, as a PC host, can make fake discs just as easy as a disc based host could. it is all about every song i offer to my customers is backed up by an original manu disc. every song Joe for instance offers his customers is backed up by an original manu disc, no burns, just like mine. so same cert should be given if the same audit is done.

Chip, am i reading your response right? if a venue owner wanted to be sure he only hired people with legitimately purchased libraries, you would play hard to get and basically make him just take your word for it? why not show him?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Certificates are given to those who are disc based and go through the audit, we had two in Charlotte that were disc based I believe.

Trivia has been tried every where, it works for a couple of months and then drops off to nothing!

Ha!

Trivia is the 2nd most successful night at my longest running venue.

2nd to karaoke that is.

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Never the same show twice!

You're not thinking foolishly at all, Jerry. I'm manufacturer disc based as well, and this has been my bone of contention all along. SC is, as Chip put it so eloquently, "poisoning the well" for everyone, not just pirates. Venues HAVE been easing off karaoke in some areas, simply because they don't want to be bothered, or have waves made for their businesses.

SC, being out of the karaoke production business for some time now, does not have any customer base to worry about, and so couldn't care less about their effect on the Karaoke Hosting business one way or the other.

They have merely found a new source of income generation.

As for "Certifications" by any manufacturer? Unfortunately venues couldn't care less, any more than they care about NAME or or other DJ "certifications". Venues ( and I've been everything from a bartender to a manager to an owner) ONLY care about business running smoothly, and with the least amount of involvement from outsiders as possible.

The worst part is that it's all big noise from a teeny little company with no juice. It's all bark, but it's loud and annoying to vendors.

You won't SC in a courtroom for them any more than you have for KJs.

Remember- They have absolutely NO STAKE in the business of karaoke any longer. They will attempt to coerce as much money as possible until the well runs dry.

Does anyone know if ANY of the listed venues are connected to hotels or other high income businesses, or are the only going after small single owner places with hopes that they won't fight?

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Add to that the little business of requiring you to mark your discs soldering iron...... Oh yeah- THAT'S gonna happen....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

....And therein lay the problem, boys and girls. You can be SURE SC won't spell it out for them either....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

so Joe, were you still a venue owner, would you not care if your host was using a pirated hard drive and just look the other way to stay blissfully ignorant? run the rest of your business with stolen beer from your vendors, jukebox with limewire tracks, have your tv's attached to tapped cable from next door? or follow the rules for all that and say screw it, karaoke doesn't matter that much to care about? that is what it sounds like in your post to Jerry.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Steve... my comment was intended for Chip, not Paradigm.... Read the whole series of quotes in full, not in bits and pieces (where you only read Paradigm's part, and thought I was commenting to that). I am re-quoting everything, but this time I am separating the quotes, so you can read it more clearly.

It's not a matter of "hard to get" at all. My feeling is you (and other cheerleaders) are completely suckered in to SC's game of "legitimately purchased libraries" you can't see the forest for the trees.

"Legit", "certified", "legal", "audited", "inspected", "vetted", whatever words you care to attach to to your business is nothing more than an excuse to try add value to your own inability to make money. Why is it you think that ANY bar owner would care in the first place? Because of the marketing of FEAR through "rumors of lawsuits by SC?" You are cheerleading for the company that is promoting fear to the very venues you want to make your customers. The same company that claims you should be "legit", "certified", "legal", "audited", "inspected", "vetted" when they have no legal authority to impose this on anyone in the first place.

How about I ask the bar owner to "audit" all of the tap equipment, kitchen area, tax receipts and liquor license because I want to make sure that THEY are safe for consumers like me and "legal?" How far will that go? It won't because I don't have any right to make any of those assessments do I? Nope. Just as SC has no right to claim that an "audit is required to be legal."

If SC wants to sue pirates then let 'em at it... let 'em gather real EVIDENCE and sue them until the cows come home - I don't care. You have been suckered by SC and CB to be their "salespeople" but you don't see that. You think they're doing something to "help you" when in fact, you are doing more to only help them sell THEIR product to the very pirates in your neck of the woods at a financed, deep discount price. If they are so "right" in what they are doing, why hasn't a single court case from 2009 that are still on the books not completed? Ever bother to ask yourself that or are you simply ignoring it altogether? Don't blame it on the "wheels of justice" because from what I've seen, the standstill is not caused by the courts.

You bought or otherwise own your discs right?
What else is necessary for you to operate your business?

Is it a requirement that you be "audited" by a vendor you've already paid to be in business?
Is it a requirement that you be "certified" by a vendor you've already paid to be in business?
Is it a requirement that you be "vetted" by a vendor you've already paid to be in business?
Is it a requirement that you be "anything" by a vendor you've already paid to be in business?

You see, the penalty for purchasing and or using SC and CB products is a lawsuit.

How about if someone sends a letter to your venues stating that they are "officially notifying the club that they think that you might be an infringer" with a stern warning that you should be fired immediately and send along with it, a copy of the latest filing against venues in Florida from SC?

This way, they would not be accusing you of anything other than stating that "they think" or "are lead to believe." The club doesn't need evidence of anything more than the legal hassle they might have if they continue to keep you. They'd tell you; "buh-bye!"

Stand on your own two feet and stop blaming others (like pirates) for your problems or hoping that others (like SC) will make it all better for you. The common denominator here is that you're not doing anything for yourself in either situation.

I wonder what Chip would do if we ripped off his kiosks and made copies and started selling them for pennies on the dollar? Mmmmm, methinks he would do what the karaoke manufacturers are doing. Suing violators. But we are just making copies for our show, so that should be okay. Buy one and make copies for our own use. Why buy 4-5 kiosks when one will do. Why buy from Chip when Joe Blow has the same thing at a fraction of the cost.

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