Karaoke Forums

Excerpts from SC's latest filing against clubs:

SC thinks it can demand that clubs shakedown and be their "policeman":


Why would a club give 2 squats about who "slep-tone" is in the first place?



Considering that the first suit against the KJ is still ongoing and there has NOT been ANY determination whether or not that KJ was in fact "infringing" anything, this is nothing more than SC telling a club to fire a KJ or face being sued. This is the "poisoning" that I mentioned earlier - SC hasn't proved anything against the KJ. If clubs think that they have to be "karaoke police" they'll simply drop it altogether because it's not worth the hassle.

SC will singlehandedly kill this karaoke market (or what's left of it) and conveniently blame it on the pirates (who aren't interested in becoming SC customers).

They have offered no PROOF in this suit of anything more than their own hearsay.

It would be interesting if any of these clubs submits a request for admissions against SC which will cut to the chase immediately or basically torpedo their suit in 28 days. This will force SC to either put up some verifiable proof or just go away. That request for admissions should include a request for the tracks played that they claim their trademark was displayed with and all the licensing that is required and the dates of the original sale vs. date on a license just to make sure that they are not just as culpable....

It's this kind of additional work that will do nothing but reinforce to the clubs that karaoke is really not worth the hassle.

Nope...all this will do is kill Karaoke in the bars entirely. It is amazing to me how Sound Choice can keep threatening your livelihood and you can come back and shake your pom poms and say rah-rah-rah.

Birdofsong

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Birdofsong

Birdofsong....you have it wrong...the pirates not only threatened our livelihood but took us to the brink of insolvency. So yes I am and will remain a cheerleader......GO SOUND CHOICE

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

Sounds like you made it to the brink all by yourself and didn't need any help. But obviously, it's a problem you feel you can't fix yourself through your own talents....

I'm not trying to court trouble so I've stayed off the boards.
But here is a twist to consider. How could suing the venues affect the disc-based KJ's, like me?
Let's say the venues are herded into agreements to hire only certified KJ's. As I understand it, the certifications are only for computer-based KJ's, the GEM series is only for computer, that does me no good. (And now Chartbuster wants to charge $199 a year to certify?)
I need none of that, I only use manufacturers' CDGs and LaserDiscs, I have them with me every show I do.
But perhaps there comes a day when I can't be hired by a venue because I'm not certified? But that same venue could hire a rehabbed pirate who will still pay only a fraction of what I've got sunk into my collection?

Somebody please, please tell me I'm thinking foolishly.

1. you do not have to "have only the GEM series" for certified computer operation.

2. Since you are disc based you don't have a problem to begin with. Becoming certified for you is as simple as it gets.

3. Perhaps but there is nothing keeping from becoming certified!

The simple fact is if you are disc based the venues can hire you with or without certification The certification is really just certifying that a "computer based" operator is truly 1:1.

Stop worrying you are just thinking foolishly!

SC was held as arguably the top in the business, for a majority of singers, it is still the first choice if given a choice. they did it right, made a good product that people wanted. a lot wont have DK, or pop hits, or zoom, but you would be hard pressed to find someone without an SC disc. the law suits came after the went down to 10 employees from lack of sales, not lack of people using it, just lack of people BUYING it. what did SC do to cause that? how did they bring that on themselves? you jumped on Athena that her problems she caused herself, it's the same enemy, the same people causing the problems. to explain hers as self inflicted, you also need to explain SC's as self inflicted.
i actually agree that with the original suits still unresolved, they jumped the gun on this round, but jumping on Athena for having trouble with people that a multi million dollar organization like SC could not handle is a bit much.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Here's the problem, Jerry -- if venues get so fed up by this crap, they'll dump Karaoke altogether. They're not going to want anything to do with any of it, and it won't matter if you run a computer or disc based.

I don't believe for a second that Sound Choice's actions are going to persuade any bar to start hiring only "certified" KJs. I believe it will persuade them to dump Karaoke completely. Trivia anyone?

Birdofsong

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Birdofsong

SC (and the other manufacturers) were actually a big part of their own "reduction" due to their desire to sell their product to anyone holding a dollar rather than developing this into a vendor/service type of industry. If you sell your product to the general public, don't be surprised what they do with it. And that's exactly what's been done here.

It was suggested as far back as the early 90's that the manufacturers INCREASE prices and RESTRICT sales to professionals only. This would have effectively made for a smaller market of KJ's that would have been able to keep pricing up, purchase more product, etc.... (gee, what is the Gem series?.... restricted leases to "professionals only?" Amazing! late... but amazing...)

The manufacturers would have nothing to do with that because they wanted to sell to the "home market" citing that increasing prices for KJ's would only promote piracy rather than stop it or even slow it down. They also stated that the home market purchased more discs, but the KJ's made much larger single purchases. We can see how well that "open sales policy" has worked for them so far.

I have always asserted that one of the biggest problems with this business is that any Tom, Dick and Harry can simply buy some discs, crap sound system and shazzam! They are a "professional in the music and entertainment business." Most don't know the difference between a musical key and the one that starts their car. There is no schooling, no training, no association, no continuing education and as far as a "certification" is concerned; that word is usually used to mean that their was SOME training/education/etc. involved and not simply a store sales receipt.

Athena likes to blame her business woes on "the pirates" and not even consider that if her operation was actually making money for a club, the club would never replace her company with anyone else.... ever. Even if a pirate KJ offered their services for a buck. Club owners and managers are cheapskates I'll agree, but they're not all stupid.

I've been at a club for 14 years this year.... it has a seating capacity of only 56 and on a Thursday night, the club will turn $2,200.00 at the till from 9pm to close. Have they been approached by pirates offering cheaper services? You bet. Why don't they try one out?

So don't blame your abilities (or inabilities) on pirates or anyone else. It's up to YOU to make your services indispensable to your clients. It's not the library, it's not the sound system, it's YOU.

Take responsibility for your own actions.

First off thank you Paradigm Karaoke for defending me and my position. I am able to accept and fully admit any problems within my control that have effected my business (I admit I am not the best business person karaoke is a passion for my DH and myself and we have done somethings that do not make "business sense")....Piracy however is one that I have no hope of controlling and that's why I am so anti-pirate. I am happy to state that the fight has improved things in our area we no longer are hanging over the brink. I look forward to more suits in my area.....soon at least this little part of the world will be pirate free and then we will be able to pay our bills and afford some of the luxuries again.

_________________
"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

It will not ever be "pirate free" because some will simply settle and become "customers" and your competitive situation will not change. And again, you are relying on someone else to improve your situation instead of doing that yourself. You don't control your own business.... obviously someone else does. I don't rely on someone else to do something so that I can pay my bills.

Oh and by the way we have been contacted by 2 of the 3 bars named in our area ( Wow in only 1 day).....it will remain to be seen if they will meet our pricing and if we have a system available to fill those nights...in the event we can not the leads will be passed on to the couple of disc based legit KJ's we know of in our area
2 out of 3 looking for legit hosts.......much better than 20%....somebody legal is going to have some new shows

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"Integrity is choosing your thoughts, words and actions based on your principles and values rather than for your personal gain."
Unknown
"if a man has integrity, nothing else matters, If a man has no integrity, nothing else matters."
Lee McGuffey

I think the "dumping of karaoke" mantra is very naive. karaoke is a money maker for most bars. To get rid of a money maker makes no business sense, especially if some of them have to payout (either through being successfully sued and/or legal fees) and that money needs to be recouped. A bar will just check with the host that they are either using discs or are "certified" and continue to make money.

I'm not crazy about the manufacturers doing the certification. In Canada we have AVLA where discs, etc can be format shifted for a fee (the fee being distributed to the copyright holders), unfortunately, to date this DOES NOT extend to CD+Gs, but I beliieve they may be working on it. A separate, independant organization to do the certification and collection would put mine and I daresay everyone else's mind at ease.

Until the laws are changed, we will remain disc based. Even should the laws change we will still probably be disc based. I don't have the time or patience to transfer 2,000 discs.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

In regard to Items 2 and 3.... Nothing keeping you from becoming certified except for that $199 fee that CB wants. And then, who's to say that SC doesn't start charging this same fee as well? And then PHM (Stellar Records)... And then each of the other manufacturers in turn???

To me, it sounds like KaraokeJerry doesn't want to pay CB that $199 fee. I know that I DON'T!!! Steve, maybe you feel it's worth it to pay that fee (as you have stated in some past posts), but I don't. I am only doing a show at 1 place, and that's only 12 shows a year at this place (due to my schedule and when the bar wants to have karaoke). I get paid $150 for a 3 hour show there. I am Disc Based too (and you know that, because you've seen me tote my library with me years ago... it's grown even more since you last saw me). I'm not shelling out $199 to receive a BS Certificate of Certification from a Manufacturer, when the Venues could care less.




And this response of yours addresses one of KaraokeJerry's concerns. If the Venues are told (in their settlements) that they can only hire Certified KJs, then that forces us KJs to pay for this... assuming that the Venues really do adhere to those terms of settlement.

Steven,

I know you are disc based and you don't have a problem as a disc based host, it is the computer operated systems that must be certified 1:1, you are at just 1 to begin with. You don't have to seek certification, and the venues you just tell them you are disc based and legal, that may be clarified in the settlement agreement with the venues, I don't know since I have never seen it.

I don't believe it will matter what "you tell them".... it will simply be safer for them to say "no karaoke here."

If a club is looking for a 'certified' kj off of say the Sound Choice site and only wants a kj that is 'certified', then someone running discs would not fall into that catagory simply because they are running discs. A club wouldn't know the difference.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

it kinda depends on the wording used. if they say "only certified hosts" then its gonna be a problem, if it says "hosts that use original discs or certified PC hosts" then no issue. does anybody have a settlement agreement to see?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I have original discs.... I am therefore just as "certified" as anyone else.