Karaoke Forums

Recording can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it...

I can either record through my mixer, with all flags flying...

or I can record direct into my pc software.

I can't tell the difference in quality and no-one's ever mentioned it to me

So I tend to keep it simple and plug directly into my pc...

I have CEP and Cubase VST 5.1 (but I could just as easially use nothing but CEP)

I have a bog-standard soundblaster card, not even an audigy, just the ol' creative live

About the only thing of quality I have is my mic (Shure SM58 beta)

I've been complimented many times on the clarity of my recording, and the quality of my mixes, which I think proves it's NOT the equipment you have, its what you do with it that counts

I've found a lot of the time, people have all they need to produce good quality mixes, they just don't know how to use their stuff to its full potential...

So MY advice to anyone wanting to improve their mixes...

DON'T spend loads of money on fancy equipment... just read the help files on the stuff you've got and find out how to REALLY get the best from it...

then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

Not trying to be a stinker here, but, you all are making me dizzy...( to steal a line from what's his name's song? Tommy Roe?

.... You got my head spinning....are you sure you ain't all working to hard on this? Surely I must be missing the point... I came here for fun, not to become a professional sound engineer... I must be mentally inferior...cuz me, I really am singin like I got nothing to prove....And if I need to spend a grand to post a song anyone cares to hear, I think I will go draw... and art was never my strong suit...

Lordy, Lordy, does this mean poor folks can't sing? I hope not cuz I sure enjoy it.....

A note to the less fortunate such as myself: It is possible to sing and post without all this stuff.....and buying all this will not qualify you as a singer or a sound engineer....but it might keep you from making your house payment or paying your electric bill...

Just the rantings of a menopausal woman who likes to sing and is absolutely sure money and stuff won't turn you into a singer or make u famous....but that being famous will help you have money to buy stuff, ......but not sure famous will ever happen here....Karaoke is for fun folks....isn't it?

Please don't gang up on me now, I just had to put a good word in for us non sound engineer, non wealthy types, who just really enjoy singing for the sheer joy of it... lest some leave baffled and frustrated because they fear they can never become great sound engineers.... Personally, I believe you either can sing and hear or you can't....and no matter how much money you spend on stuff if God didn't give you the gift, not sure equipment purchases will...

Steven is a perfect example...He is not a sound engineer, admittedly....He gets razzed a bit for sound quality...I am here to tell you I could listen to him all day long, pops, too much reverb I don't care. I can overlook it all and hear the good....the man has a song...songs worth hearing....songs that make many people say great things to him.....I see no reason in the world for anyone to pick apart the songs on here because we are not all sound engineers...When someone gets up at karaoke to sing and they suck ( as we all know some do) do we say hey, you're tone deaf, or hey u suck?
No....we are nice.....and I just read a post from Ok What Now, and he said his set up was inexpensive and simple and he's one of the very best here also, in my humble opinion....

Just curious what the purpose of all this is if not fun? Are we all to be aspiring sound engineers? I am starting to wonder if maybe I don't even qualify to be here?

Leaving now to go put my armor on...just my tiny lil 2 cents worth....ok? Please don't kill me now....I like living....and I love this web site....but I am certain I will never become a sound engineer....just happy to sing and listen.....for fun......Fun, that's my aspiration....

We may not be major musical break throughs, but we might be able to make each other smile, and maybe thats good enuf ???? I hope...

_________________
When I was young, I used to believe in the concept of one best friend,  then I became an adult  and  realized  that if you allow your heart to open up, God would show you the best in many friends...

HT...You belong here --- NO DOUBT. Love your subs!!!

Personally, I like messing with the techie stuff and learning thought my mistakes (many, many mistakes). But that is just me......and I would never hold it against someone (Hi Dear ) if they steered away from that end of things 'cause it dampens their enjoyment!

If you pick up Audacity (free online) you might find that it makes it easier, and more fun, to record, mix, and rip an mp3 for submission.

That's exactly what I was saying... you don't need loads of fancy stuff... in most cases it's a waste of money... just practice to get the best out of what you have

No need to spend a fortune to get a good sound, just a good mic, mixer at $79,00 (Behringer) and a good sound card with effects like a SB & voila!!

Now it's a question of knowing how to calibrate and it only comes with time & practice!

From what I've been able to tell there are three ways people put the subs together to put on the board.

1. Using a complete 'studio' setup with external recording. They then transfer the mix to pc. A smaller group - if any - do this. It's expensive and can require a degree in acoustical engineering to get this right. If you have a multitrack recorder, a digital mixer, and condensor mics in your home studio and know how to use it then I'd love some lessons and a chance to play with it! I just can't afford that kind of equipment....

2. Playing the track on the pc, and recording the voice as an additional track. This is probably the most common way from what I've seen in the information in the pinned posts. The main problem with this is it results in a differential in time between the music and the voice track. This delay can be removed but as you add effects and other stuff on the fly it can create uneven delay as the processor/memory is overloaded which can't be accomodated 'in the mix'.

3. Playing the track (on the computer or from a CDG player) and mixing the music and voice sepereately - outside the computer - and then recording back on the computer. This is what I use to record. I have a mixer I use for my show (it's designed to be hooked up to a pc or used in live sessions). The smaller version (Soundcraft Compact 4) of what I have (Soundcraft Compact 10) is $130 at Musicians Friend. Add in a good mic and a desktop stand and you'll be out less than $200. For this you can mix the vocals/guitar/music track outside the pc, removing all the necessary delays to correct and just record. You can multitrack (record two sounds at once) by using the music all the way left and the voice all the way right - seperate the two in the software and add effects as necessary. Audacity will do this (Audacity is free) as will Cool Edit Pro and the Adobe equivilent (among others). Drawback? It's a mixer with lots of knobs and versatility to learn about and it cost $130 + mic +cables (less than $200 depending on the mic/cables).

So, no, you don't have to go into the poor house to record using good equipment. A good balanced mic will sound better than the small desktop computer mic almost any day. Mixing externally to the computer removes a level of complexity in re-aligning the music/vocals but adds a level of complexity in learning the mixer. The main advantage is that if you decide to use external effects and processing later you can plug them right into the mixer - even if you're using the built in sound card in your computer (like I am - a cheap EDD Maestro 2E card in my PII 400MHz Gateway laptop). I spent my money on a mixer and mics instead of a $150+ sound card or a new pc for recording.

BTW, no matter how much processing and effects you add you can't make a bad singer sound good. If you like to hear someone sing - even if the mix isn't the best - then chances are they're an incredible singer! Fixing the levels and cleaning up the sound will only make them sound that much better. I'm not saying we should have everyone here on the board buy a mic and mixer, just trying to point out the advantages to using one outside the computer.

If you want to learn more about sound and how to use the equipment I recommend the basic series by Paul White. I picked these up recently and they have a large amount of information in them for the price ($7.95 list each). basic Mixers and basic Mixing Techniques would apply to even those using computer based mixers to put submissions together and might help to more accurately put the music and voice together in the best way possible while teaching terminology and basic sound techniques.

Ok, so I ramble... sorry about that... But I hope that some of this information is helpful so someone.

Not neccesarily...

A lot of the time differential can be corrected easially by how you set up your soundcard and recording software to start with. I don't have anything fancy (SB live soundcard, 1.8g processor, but I used a P333mhz machine not so long ago) but because I took the time to find out how to get the best and set it up properly, I have (and had on my old machine) a latency rate of just 46 milliseconds. I don't get any increased latency by adding effects and/or mixing my tracks, nor do I have to worry about adjusting the tracks afterwards to compensate.

As I said before, it's all about knowing how to use what you have

This is what I use:

CEP - (can't remember version, but it is older)
Microphone that is connected to hearphones from London Drugs for $10.00

I don't believe that your equipment can make you sound better, I believe it is (like atomic said) using what you have and knowing how to use it properly.

My first recordings sucked because I put in way too much reverb and echo, and now I know the exact settings that compliment my voice. I also have learned how to turn up or down the bass, mids, and highs in my voice and the karaoke track to make myself sound even better. I also do all my mixing through the headphones, rather than the speakers as you can hear a lot more and block out outside distracting noises.

The recordings that I can do at home sound just as good as the recordings I have done in the studio with their expensive equipment.

However, if I had the money, I probably would buy some more expensive, better stuff and make myself a little studio at home. To each his own and whatever makes you happy

I really hope you don't take this wrong... and I REALLY don't want an arguement.

Buying a $5000 set of golf clubs won't make you play like Tiger Woods, if you are a decent player they can make a difference over the $50 set you got from the pawn shop. Note the - if you're a decent player. (THIS COMMENT DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU PERSONALLY!)

You're right in that if you don't know how to use the equipment no matter whether you record in a complete multi-million dollar studio using $10,000 mics or on a 10 year old computer using a $3 mic from the bargain bin it won't make any difference.

However, I see differences between the Ritech mics that came with my DVD player, the mic that came w/ the karaoke setup for my X-Box, the $30 Radio Shack mic I got for Christmas, the $30 pair of wireless mics off e-Bay, the Shure PG-58 and the Fender P-51 mics I have. I see differences in both the level settings on my board and the sound they each produce. The P-51's have a better, more accurate sound, but the Shure PG-58 is a louder mic. Many of the other mics don't accurately reproduce the sound, clip when the singer is loud, and/or create other issues/anomolies that are obviously from inferior equipment. Each of the mics I have has it's purpose but I can see the difference between many of them - and not just between the balanced vs. unbalanced mics.

The mixer can also affect the quality. I can see the difference in the recordings I've made off my Fender PD-250 and the new mixing board I have. While both allow for flexibility in the mix, I prefer the sound on the Soundcraft mixer because I have less noise and more control - especially on the mics.

Just so you know, I'm still recording the same way, just with much better results - even though my new board doesn't have any reverb or echo that I can add. FYI - it does have insert points and I have effects on order.

Given the same singer with the same performance quality - studio recordings 'should' sound better than what's done at home on a $10 mic. The fact that it doesn't is both incredible kudos to you for knowing your stuff and being a great singer as well as a mark against the engineer at the studio.

In the end I agree - different strokes for different folks.

I feel that equipment alone can't make a bad singer good, but it can make a good singer bad. Proper use of the equipment is the second most important thing in getting good sound recorded from a singer (the first being the singer's ability). I'm just saying that using good equipment can make a difference - especially if you know how to use it.

No, I don't know everything about music, I'm not a sound engineer or professional musician/singer - and I don't play one on TV. I'm just learning as much as I can as fast as I can in my new hobby that makes me very, very happy.