Karaoke Forums

I just bought a PA1200C, a pair of 1584s, and a pair of 1232s floor monitors. I use the system for live band performances, dancing to CD music, and Karaoke. I can't seem to get the same digital echo effect out of the PA1200C that I normally get from my Panasonic CDG player. I tried all sorts of reverb settings on the PA1200C but to no avail. Do I need an outboard effects mixer that does the karaoke echo? If so, which brand should I buy?

Cheers,

JD

Lexicon makes a nice effects rack. Check em out and sing on a couple of different settings . You will be pleasently suprised. Nice price too.

Thanks for the info, Metalgod. I checked out the Lexicon effect processors and the MPX110 appeals to me. It appears to be a new processor and therefore not priced at a discount. At $199, it certainly fits my requirements. It also allows me to plug in an electic guitar and feed effects into the amp. It beats having to lug another guitar amp.

I will check it out and hear the sounds for myself.

Cheers,

JD

I'm not familiar with the Carvin, but since most boards seem to use a similiar chip for effects. Try the reverb / delay combination and see if that's the effect you're looking for for the Karaoke.

The "karaoke echo" built in to most players are just a cheesy effect they throw in there to give some kind of vocal effect. It is usually leaves too long of a trail (repeats too long) & the time between the delay is way too short for anything really functional. Chances are you aren't going to find THAT sound on anything of quality. The Lexicon is a nice little unit, I use that one as well. You may be able to tune it to get that cheesy effect, but chances are once your hear a good reverb hinting behind your vocals, you won't want that "karaoke echo" anymore.
I say hinting behind your voice because effect are meant to enhance, not take over. On most situations, if you can actually HEAR the effect, you probably got too much. There are some songs that require an extraordinary amount of delay or chorus or reverb, but these aren't common practices.

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Thank you, Lonman, for your insightful post. Years of singing on karaoke machines must have conditioned my ears to the "cheesy effects". Funny that you mentioned "cheesy" since my co-worker, who is very knowledgeable with sound equipment, said the same thing about karaoke effects. Something about making lousy singers sound good... I hope he wasn't talking about me.

Anyway, I also got a suggestion from the Carvin board about a setting that doesn't sound "cheesy" and is pleasing enough. I will give his recommendation a try soon. I know from reading the Carvin manual that the onboard effects on the PA1200C is quite versatile. I'm still new on this professional grade sound gear and so I'm still learning how to set those knobs correctly.

I've since added a pair of 1232s, which will serve as spot monitors for live band performances or rear monitors for DJ gigs. I'm not a DJ or KJ yet but I'm planning to give it a try to see if I'm cut out for it. I'm not looking to make this my primary source of income. It's just a hobby for me... albeit an expensive one, considering the amount of money that I have already spent. I have looked at the "investment" I've made as something that will hold its value in the years to come. I have spent thousands on laptops and PCs in the past but now they are almost worth nothing. This Carvin PA system is money well spent, IMO.

I have checked out some of your previous posts. It appears that you are quite knowledgeable with Carvin gears. I have more questions that I would like to ask you, if you don't mind...
1. Can I hook up the Carvin PM5-B to the PA1200C without damaging the speakers?
2. Given the size and weight of the 1584s, I may have to consider a new set of speakers for karaoke only. Can you recommend a set of speakers that are light, small, reasonably priced, and will provide professional sound quality?
3. What is the best EQ channel setting for acoustic quitar and electric quitar?
4. What is the best EQ channel setting for vocals?

Cheers,

JD

I'd try running efx2 mono to an alesis Microverb 4 stereo back to L?R return. Right now I'm using Mackie DFX 12 with the verb 4 I have spent literally days listening to old rcordings (no effects back then other than spring) I usually run med plate or gate or phasor on the Mackie & chorous the verb4 like about 97 (small room stereo chorus) or 99 flange Like Lonman says don;t over do it just sweeten vocals (unless it's 11pm and they are doin Ludacris):)Sometimes actually inc chorus during songs chorus or when you have duet goin' Like I say run reg music all types thru and monitor on headphones to get a feel what system actually does Then room acoustics have a huge effect on overall performance too....
In the Mackie manual it says if it sounds good then do it..

1. The PA1200C pushes around 200 watts into 8 ohms, the PM5-B handles 125 watts RMS. If your careful, you shouldn't have any problems.

2. I honestly wouldn't go smaller than those speakers. You will lose massive low end & you'll end up sounding like like a toybox karaoke machine. But if you must go lighter & smaller I would say take a look at the Mackie C300 - but bring in your mixer/amp to demo.

3. As far as acoustic & electric guitar settings, there is no correct setting, it's all dependent on the guitar, the mic on the guitar, the amp, the mic on the amp & the sound system in general. Adjust until you are happy with the sound.

4. Same for vocals. if everything is set up right & you have a good mic, you "shouldn't" need to adjust the channel eq much. Cheaper mics will need more eq'ing.

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Karyoker - Thank you for your suggestion. I checked out the midiverb and like its features. I will consider an outboard effects processor if I can't tweak the setting in my PA1200C. I have a feeling that I'll find a "sweet spot" that is not overdone and will make singers sound good. Inevitably, there will be some singers that will look for it and won't be happy unless I am able to make their voices sound "heavenly" or "cheesy".

Lonman - Thank you again for your reply. As always, you've done your homework. The PA1200C is indeed rated at 200 watts per amp at 8 ohms, which would be somewhat over the wattage of the PM-5B but still within tolerable limits, as you say, as long as I don't push it. I was concerned before that the 333 watts per amp would damage the tiny speakers but then you pointed out that the rating should be based at 8 ohms since the PM-5B is rated 125 watts at 8 ohms.

I also agree with your view that there are no fixed and perfect settings for EQing guitars and vocals. There is no substitute for a good sound check using my own ears.

One more question on the speakers, if I may... Would it be a good idea to add a subwoofer to the PM-5Bs and, if so, what brand/model should I consider? I was thinking that if the PM-5Bs sound good, I could boost the low-end by adding a subwoofer and that would make my system really easy to carry without sacrificing sound quality. I guess what I'm looking for is a pair of small monitors with a good subwoofer. The brand/model does not matter to me as long as they can deliver professional sound quality and are not too expensive. This setup would suffice for a small venue of strictly karaoke. For much bigger venues with a live band or DJ, I will use the 1584s and the 1232s. Someday, if the DJ/KJ stuff works out, I'll pick up a pair of SW1801As to really shake things up.

Cheers,

JD

The PM-5Bs are too small to be anything more than a spot monitor. Mainly designed for keybordists & VERY small combo bands - but still only as monitors. They wouldn't be good for a main speaker at all, even with a sub.
The 1584 is a pretty comparible speaker to anything that's out there now & sound pretty decent as a stand alone speaker - even better bi-amped. Karaoke unfortunely has a reputation that the sound don't need to be as good good as live bands or even good dj companies so alot of companies - sorry to say - try to go smaller with their speakers & amps & i'm sorry, I haven't heard a company yet to have a very good sound with this mentallity (there are a couple up here that even I envy BUT they are using full blown quality equipment). Don't get into the "karaoke has to be small or don't have to be quality" mentallity & you should do ok over your competition - provided you have a good selection & hosting skills to boot.

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Thanks, Lonman. Your advice makes a lot of sense. Why bother going to a karaoke show if the sound is so-so? I suppose I could use some exercise lifting those speakers.

Cheers,

JD