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Mster
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:21 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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Can someone suggest a good 4 channel power amp for home use? I have looked at the Carvin DCM1204 and DCM1000. I can't figure out if the DCM1000 can be hooked up to 4 speakers using banana plugs. I only see 2 sets of speaker connections for DCM1000. The Carvin website has no manual for the DCM1204, but I assume it has 4 sets of speaker connections since it's 4 amps in one unit whereas the DCM1000 is 2 amps. Please show me the light .
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marty3
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:22 pm |
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2001 5:32 am Posts: 387 Location: Chicago 'burbs USA Been Liked: 1 time
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Calling Lonman...
_________________ Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois
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kojak
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:35 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:12 pm Posts: 221 Location: In bed with the Borg Queen Been Liked: 0 time
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Mster,
The DCM 1204 has 4, 1/4" speaker outputs. It has 4, 1/4" inputs, and a button that makes one input drive 2 channels.
To use the DCM1000, you will HAVE to buy a couple of y-splitters, 1 male to dual female.
Saying that this is for home use is rather vague.
Is it for home karaoke, or do you wish to connect up a home stereo, or both?
Do you want to go pro someday?
What about the speakers that you want to use?
Are all 4 identical, or will you be using 2 sets of differant speakers?
Are they 2-way, or 3-way?
How big are thier drivers?
Are they 8ohm or 4ohm?
Do they have compression horns, or domed tweeters?
Have you bought them yet?
Most pro audio speakers have an output to connect another speaker to.
If yours do, then you won't need to get splitters to connect a second set of speakers to, however...
If you will be using 2 sets of differant speakers, the chances are that they won't have the same sensitivity. This means that if the connect them together as as a team for each side, (one of each for the left, and one of each for the right side), one will be louder than the other. This may not be a big deal, but if the differance is dramatic and the louder speaker has a poorer frequency responce, it may be.
I have a friend who had this happen to him, and I promise you he is NOT a happy camper.
I use Carvin gear, and I have a current cataloge. Shipping is free until June 30.
Post again with more info, and I will give you a more straight forward answer.
Kojak
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Lonman
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:55 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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Mster wrote: I have looked at the Carvin DCM1204 and DCM1000. I can't figure out if the DCM1000 can be hooked up to 4 speakers using banana plugs. I only see 2 sets of speaker connections for DCM1000. .
The 4 channel 1204 as stated has 4 separate 1/4" speaker jacks. No banana plugs. The 1000 is only a 2 channel amp. A better way to connect 4 speakers to it would be using the banana plugs piggy backed 2 speakers per channel - provided the ohms don't fall below the rated minimum.
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Mster
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:41 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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Thanks for the responses! I think I am going with the DCM 1204 amplifier. I'm not planning on going pro and this setup is going to be purely for home entertainment. Right now, I am going to just use 2 speakers (3-way) that are 8 ohms and will add 2 in the near future. It looks like I have to get adapaters and new speaker wires since my speakers don't have 1/4", speakon, or twist lock inputs. I have to use banana plugs. Will sound quality be reduced using these adapters to hook up to normal speakers that have + and - connections? I'm guessing it's standard in the industry to use 1/4" connections for karaoke speakers?
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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No the sound quality won't be altered - at least to any audible aspect.
As far as your speaker wires go, a cheap way is to buy a 50' speaker cord with 1/4" ends on each side & cut it in half so you have the exposed ends for the speaker connectors.
What kind of speakers are you trying to use, it sounds like you are trying to use regular stereo speaker from the sound of the connector on them.
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Mster
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:37 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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yeah, i'm just using regular stereo speakers. Karaoke speakers tend to be big in size and I don't have too much room. I'd like to get some speakers that are slender in size if possible.
Interesting idea on the speaker wire, but I don't quite follow the idea. If I cut it in half and the end with the 1/4" plug goes in the amp, it leaves the other end bare? Are you saying that I can get a banana plug and attach it to the bare end? How does it work when my speakers have + and - connections? I guess I don't quite understand how a 1/4" speaker wire processes the sound to my regular stereo speakers.
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:46 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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All a 1/4" plug is, is an adapter. It takes the positive/negative wires on the speaker cord & makes it more convenient to plug into an amp. Yes the 1/4" would go to the amp. Is the positive & negative terminal on your speaker a banana plug / screw terminal / or push terminals??
The bare ends on the other speaker cord could be connected however you need with the correct adapter (provided you need one at all). Usually in speaker wire white is positive & black is negative.
The sound with your regular speaker may & probably will have less than desireable results & you run the risk of blowing them much easier as they aren't designed to run live sources - karaoke has a live mic.
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Mster
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:54 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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ok, great now I understand. Basically a 1/4" speaker wire is the same as any regular speaker wire except that it has an 1/4" adapter. Do you know of any speaker that are slender and tall that can handle live sources?
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Mster
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:01 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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forgot, my speakers are 5-way binding posts so they can take bare wire or use banana plugs.
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Lonman
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:18 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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So you'll be able to use the bare wire end or get a banana plug & wire it up for that.
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kojak
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:47 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:12 pm Posts: 221 Location: In bed with the Borg Queen Been Liked: 0 time
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Mster,
Tall, slender speakers, (also known as towers), are generally reserved for home audio use. This is because they are geared for nice, warm sound, as apposed to the club filling volumes required for club use.
Thier weakness when it comes to reproducing voice or live instrumentation is in the fact that they cannot handle the high level frequency spikes of live sound. Tweeters that make nice highs don't handel the levels that compression horns do.
A polyethermide tweeter is more durable than a silk domed tweeter.
A solid titainium domed, or a ceramic metal matrix diaphram, (as found on Infinity's speakers), are more durable yet.
I would recommend a 1" tweeter as opposeed to one that is smaller due to heat dissipation. Some tweeters are liquid filled just for this reason.
If you get speakers with spring clip connecters, you can get adapters that can accomodate 12 gauge speaker wire. I would STRONGLY recommend heavy gauge wire.
The list of speaker mfrs. is as long as your arm and include:
Accoustic Reshearch, JBL, Sony, Polk Audio, Infinity, Bose, etc., etc., etc...
I would suggest that you find a home audio supplier that has live tech support.
Be sure to tell the tech support that you will be using a 4 channel amp.
Crutchfield would be a good place to start. Goto crutchfield.com
I'm not specificly recomending Crutchfield, but I think that they may serve you better than some place like Fry's, The Good Guys, Circuit City or Radio Shack.
Once you have a recomendation that fits your budget, it would be prudent to contact the mfr. about how well you could expect thier tower to handle voice.
Kojak
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Mster
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:23 am |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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What gauge speaker wires are inside of a 1/4" speaker wire?
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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:47 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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It depends on the guage that you purchase. It can be bought in any guage from a real small 18 guage to a heavy duty 10 guage. The lower the number, the heavier the wire thus allowing more current to flow through it.
A 1/4" end is JUST a way to hook up a speaker to an amp, it doesn't have anything to do with the quality of wire, other adapters that can be used are banana plugs, & speakon connectors.
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Mster
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:08 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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One more question is how to hook up my mixer to the Carvin Amp. I'm guessing that the Carvin DCM1204 amp has a 1/4" balanced input? I'm not sure what that means. I haven't bought a mixer yet, but I want to make sure that the mixer I purchases can hook up to the amp.
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:15 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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Your mixer will either have XLR plugs, 1/4" balanced or both outputs. Your amp has 1/4" balanced inputs. When you buy your cables to connect your mixer to your amp, you will need to get an XLR female to a 1/4" TRS (tip/ring/sleeve - it will look like the end of a stereo headphone plug) plug. Or a 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS plug.
Whatever mixer you end up getting, it is guaranteed that you will be able to hook it up.
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Mster
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:11 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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Do you have any suggestions on digital echo mixer or what brands are good? How are the Audio 2000 mixers and what should I look into as far as features for a mixer? Just echo, delay, and tone control, volume, bass, and treble are needed? I see alot of Vocopro ads but I hear that Vocopro is not good in quality.
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kojak
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:12 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 3:12 pm Posts: 221 Location: In bed with the Borg Queen Been Liked: 0 time
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Mster,
Your DCM1204 amp has 4, 1/4" TS, (tip-sleeve), connecters.
You should use patch cables, not balanced cables. Balanced cables are for high current applications, (like speaker wires).
Patch cables, (also called unbalanced cables), have a wire surrounded by an insulator, which is then surrounded by a shield, (which is your second conductor), and finally by another insulator. Its application is for low current, line level applications. The shield is to prevent interferience.
Coaxel cable is shielded cable, so are guitar cables.
Go to www.colomar.com/Shavano/speaker_wiring.html for more info.
When you look for an EFX,(effects), mixer you may want one with a graphic EQ, and a level set indicator. A level set indicator tells you what the volume is coming out of each channel. This way you can set the same level for each mic. channel as well as for the music. You should also look for a chorus effect.
Mackie is a solid choice of brands, so is Carvin, or Alesis.
If you go to americanmusic.com you can find a 4 channel,
Behringer EURORACK MX602A for $60.
If you goto musicansfriend.com sherch for product #630157, you will find a 6 channel Alesis mixer for $150.
Carvin's C844 for $400 is a 8 channel, 4 bus mixer, with dual 9 band graphic equalizers, 6 aux sends, and 2 seperate EFX.
You should be made aware of the fact that echo and reverb is very often confused with echo. Many karaoke players label reverb as echo.
Echo is an annoying repetition of sound that disrupts most karaoke singers. Reverb is an "echoey" sound that most singers want.
I use a Mackie 1202VLZ Pro mixer on one of my systems.
This is not an EFX mixer, so I use a Digitech sound processor for EFX.
My second system has a Carvin PA1200 mixer amp. Three 333 watt amps, 12 channels, dual EFX,and two, 9 band EQs., (no level set).
This will set you back $750, but then you won't have to buy an amp. The 8 channel PA800 runs $650.
Note: This is not a DCM amp.
Kojak
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Mster
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:26 am |
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:12 pm Posts: 11 Been Liked: 0 time
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Lonman, back to speaker wires. If I cut a 50 foot speaker wire in half that has 1/4" plugs on each end, how do I know which wire is positive and negative so that I can hook it up to my speakers? I assume that the PH50 ( http://www.carvin.com/products/group.php?CID=M/S/C) speaker cable has 2 wires inside? Will there be any differenc in sound between using twist lock connections/cables ($100) versus 1/4" plug cables($20)?
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:41 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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As I stated in an earlier post, the white is usually positive & the black is usually negative, however, open up the 1/4" plug, slide the sleeve down & look at which wire is solder to the middle, this is postitive. There is no difference in sound between the 1/4" vs the Speakon twist-loc, it's just another way to connect the speaker to the amp, the twist-loc advandage over the 1/4" is basically that it won't come out of the speaker if accidently bumped, you can do multiple speaker hook-ups (ie bi-amp, tri-amp, quad amp) with one cord (provided the cord is equipped) but you will not need to worry about that as it will not apply in your situation.
Sorry Kojak,
The Carvin 1204 (as does many Carvin amps) have balanced 1/4" inputs which means 1/4" TRS (tip/ring/sleeve) inputs &/or balanced XLR inputs.
DCM1204 Power Amp (4 channel power amplifier)
• Continuous RMS per CH (two channels driven): 8 ohms 200w, 4 ohms 300w.
• THD 20-20kHz @ rated 90% output: 0.1%, 50% ouput 0.03%.
• High transparent 45v/us slew rate. Studio quality 100 dB S/N ratio.
• INPUTS: 1/4" balanced
• OUTPUTS: 3 Speakons(tm) and 4 1/4". Wired: 1-2, 3-4 and 2-3 bridge.
• Switches: limiters, ground lift, paralleling inputs1-2 & 3-4, bridge 2-3 mode.
• Recessed level attenuators, clip, signal, protect and power on indicators..
• Soft-start, DC SpeakerGuard(tm), thermal and short circuit protection relays.
• Variable speed fan. Heavy-duty all steel construction.
• Dynamic low frequency punch with transparent high-end for uncolored sound..
• 2U rackmount 3.5"H x 10"D x 19"W, WT: 25 lbs.
I've never heard of a "balanced" speaker cable either since speakers only use positive & negative???!!!???
mstr "patch" cables come in balanced & unbalanced configurations. Not sure where he was going with the cable info, but sorry to say it's not correct.
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