Karaoke Forums

I know it doesn't change how the owner replaced you without notice, but what's the deal with the NEW host? Is it someone you know who does shows elsewhere?

Here's a theory: the new KJ may be a relative. Or friend of a friend who got the gig as a favor. And now because the boss doesn't want to admit he was pressured into hiring this new guy (why would he replace you when you built his business so much?) he's avoiding your calls.

By the way, I've never seen a problem with talking to the owner of a bar with an existing host and pitching them on how you can improve their business and make them more money. It's dog-eat-dog out there! If you can back up your brag and prove you have greater value, go get someone else's Tuesday night!

Meanwhile, enjoy your time off.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Well... I can see that you are a person I would NEVER call to fill in for me in a pinch!!!

I'm not like that at all. I NEVER go into another venue, where they have Karaoke already to try to get a show. It doesn't matter, if I know the host or not, if the host $ucks, or not.

The ONLY exceptions is, if they approach me (call due word of mouth, at my shows, etc), which happens occasionally. (So far I got 5 shows from other KJ's this year by Bars/Restaurants approaching me)

And I know, that some of my competitors tried to steal my shows. Without luck...
Even though, I would never do it to them. I keep my class, knowing I'm better than them anyway.

Directly at DangerousDan: So anyway, IMHO going into a place where Karaoke exists is out of the question. There are so many other bars/restaurants out there. If you're really convinced, you're so much better than others, go get your own gig and prove yourself. This is not honorable in my book.

There is no room for honor in this or any other business. Don't think for a minute that another KJ wouldn't walk in and take your show if he could get away with it. All is fair in love and war and business is war.

That said I would not do this to fellow KJ's that I have a working relationship with, the KJ's who call me, or I call them, to fill in. Again that just makes good business sense.

But if the existing KJ sucks and I think I can do a better job, then move over cause Big Daddy is moving in to take your job.

I respectfully disagree.

Just because a desperate KJ would do it to me, doesn't mean that I would stoop to such a level.

People book me not only on my setup and show, but because they know I'm an honest, hardworking and respectful guy who will gladly work with them to achieve the best. They don't book sad desperate KJs who stoop this low, because the same ethic would be shown when they simply didn't turn up one night or such.

If a KJ is that underhanded that they would pull such a stunt, they would strugle to keep gigs. Punters may not care but I can assure you that any landlord or patron worth their salt would.

Maybe I am lucky in that I don't have to deal with people of such moral character.

The KJs that have tried to steal my gigs ended up being black balled by my customers. Most KJs have a loyal following and they don't like the idea of someone new trying to take over.

Now if a bar approached me about taking over because they didn't like who was KJing for them that's a different story. It would also have to be a KJ I didn't know. I don't burn bridges with the net work of KJs I have. In the end you'll find more gigs come from fellow KJ referrals than from sneaky practices. Plus it just feels right.

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That must be quite the little fairytale land that you work in. You sound like someone who does this part time and not to make a living. It is just like any other sales position when you are doing it for a living. Cut Throat.

there's a guy local to me who feels the same way, and he's got QUITE a reputation for backstabbing.

I personally won't take another's gig on purpose. I have no problem showing the owners my card and saying "if you want to make a change, call me", but I won't talk shop other than that with the owner/manager. Some kjs are just crap and need to be out of the business!! But I will make the owners tell the "old" kj what's going on.

"you're being replaced because you SUCK!"

But if a show has a GREAT thing going on and the customers love it, hey, more power to them.

I won't develop a reputation as a "stealer". If you're fine with that stigma, hey, more power to YOU!

@fairytale. Spoken JUST like a backstabber!

You are describing a totally different situation. If you have called me to fill in for you, that's YOUR show. By accepting the gig, I am performing under your "sponsorship" for the night. You have made that show possible for me. It's like you trusting me to escort your girlfriend to some event while you're out of town. I would be all kinds of a creep to put the moves on her and I wouldn't do it.

But if I'm walking into a karaoke venue cold and pitch the owner on why they should hire me? If they are happy with you and the crowd you bring in (translation: ringing the register) they'll show me the door. If not, they'll listen to what I have to say and maybe try me out. Nothing to do with "ethics" - that's free enterprise! Do you think that because Acme Linen Service has a restaurant account it's "unethical" for a rep from National Linen Service from pitching them?Babs, that's an enviable position to have with your customers and your venue. But don't kid yourself. Unless you're in a small town, a KJ is an easily replaced commodity. When I was in radio, at one station I worked I had huge ratings and a rabid following. When management decided they were going to "go in another direction" there was an initial flurry of listeners jamming the phone lines saying how they wouldn't listen to the station again if I wasn't brought back. From friends I had at the station who were giving me the scoop, within a couple of weeks those calls died down and the new morning host caught on.

Why? Because as much as we'd like to think that karaoke patrons are coming to see US, that's only a portion of why they come. They come because the bar's in their neighborhood, or they like the drink prices, or the bartender, or that all their friends go there. You can bet that the venue replaces you with someone with the same (or better) competence as you as a host (personality, gear, song selection) you will soon be forgotten by "your customers". Who, when you step back and think about it, are not YOUR customers. They are the BAR'S customers who come in for karaoke.

Maybe there's a rare exception, but for the most part anyone who thinks they can't be replaced because their "following" will "blackball" the place is burying their head in the sand and needs a reality check. Just my opinion.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Yup, no honor in business. Just ask AIG, Lehman Bros. Freddie and Fanny Mac, WaMu and all the rest.

Hey DD, I agree with much of what you say; however, I have watched two places completely lose karaoke as a form of entertainment when I left. Both times I left because they had developed an attitude that the people were coming to my show because it was location or food or drinks or whatever. Wrong.

So at times it can be the location but don't doubt that there are karaoke hosts who do have VERY loyal followers. In fact, most of the people who used to go to those shows don't even go out now and sing, telling me "there's no good place to sing at!" They'll occasionally call me to find out if I have a new weekend show anywhere, and to let them know when I have another show they can come to. (I choose not to work both weekend nights anymore due to other commitments but both places have asked me to come back and work their rooms on the weekends.)

Nice to know that I have a saleable commodity and that people appreciate what we do for them. There are at least two places that should have realized it earlier!

Here is my take. I am not a KJ but I filled in for a friend's show when he was predisposed a few times. But I am a DJ that specializes in doing car shows. I know cars, I know the music tastes of the attendees and I love doing announcements that they need to do. Now, there is a DJ company that has weasled their way into the cart show market, aand they have pretty good equipment...but their DJs suck and are very annoying and know nothing about cars. At one show, the jock called a group of military vehicles; TANKS!! Jeeps and 6 wheel deuce and a halves are NOT tanks. Plus all cars with wide tires were "proStreet", and all car with a bit of rust were "rat rods". I know these things are not important to the topic here but it is to people who attend these kinds of events. I would never try and take their gig, but if someone mentions to me that the DJ is real bad, I just tell them to inform the event organizers. If they want to recommend me if they know me, then that's fine. I get a few shows from recommendations like that.

I agree that there are some greedy owners who think any KJ will do and try to cut corners on a cheaper show usually with a big company who'll hire any breathing organism as a host. The key to the success of any KJ - and how they are going to develop a following - is always going to be personality. My take is the reason why those venues died wasn't because of the lack of you...it was the lack of someone GOOD.Yes! As I mentioned to Babs many KJs have "fans" just like bands or DJs. It's not WHAT they do, but HOW they do it. Not all KJs fall in that category, only the ones with exceptional skills.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I don't think it's a totally different situation. Who's to say that after you fill in for me on some night, that you don't suddenly decide to go after my show a week later? After all, you said it yourself.... "I am performing under your 'sponsorship' for the night." You didn't say anything about the day after. I only do this part time (and lately, I haven't even done a show for over 6 months now (because of my regular job)). When I was actively looking for gigs, I didn't have a following. I do have a list of over 100 e-mail addresses, but, I'm happy when 3 people from my lists show up. When I've done a show, even tho I didn't have many supporters attend, I have had people at the bar participate, and the bar patrons even stayed for the entire show/s. They were entertained (whether they participated or not). On average, I've had 8 - 10 people in rotation (singing as a constant), with it sometimes building up to 20 as the night progressed.

Now, I can just see the scenerio with you now.... I just start a new show, and you happen to walk into that "karaoke venue cold and pitch the owner on why they should hire" you because you see that I don't have many people singing. Here it is, you don't know me at all, yet you're right there... ready, willing, and able to give a sales pitch to steal the show right from under me. Worse yet.... you know me, and you try to pull that (I know many KJs exactly like that.... they will steal any gig they can get, yet smile at you like you've been BFFLs).

I DEFINANTLY have my favorites and will go whereever they are. One KJ's at gay bars downtown and I will go there to sing at his show once in awhile--gay bar not withstanding...becuase Im loyal to hima and his selection, mixing and sound system. Theres a karaoke bar 2 blocks from my house that I WONT go to becuase I dont like the KJ, his style or equipment/sound and instead I go to a long-time guy a further away becuase Im loyal to him for over 5 years not. Place to place where ever he goes. And he has a good crwod that follows him around. SO yes KJ's do have LOYAL FANS AND FOLLOWINGS.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Fairytale? No I am just a respectable person with morals. I make a VERY handsome amount of money from this - 3-4 gigs a week on top of my 9-5 job so you could argue it's part time - how many nights a week is part time?

I work with good people, and if I find anyone's business ethics to not align with mine, I simply choose to not work with them, and pass the gig onto another KJ who will.

I choose to work this way, and am in the position to be choosy - because it simply makes my life an easier one. Would I lose out on money at the expense of keeping happy - hell yeah, any day of the week.

If you are in a position where you feel you need to backstab to make money - I pity that position - it cannot be nice!

That would make a lot of us ostridges

I think you may confuse only your personal experiences with the business. Maybe you have never experienced a loyal following because you are never in one place long enough. Just giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Loyal followings are partly running a good show, having good equipment and building a relationship with your crowd. Some of my regulars I've known for 20 yrs. Loyalty happens over time because they connect with you like family. You don't get that kind of loyalty from what kind of speakers you have.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I have never backstabbed anyone. I don't take show from friends that I fill in for. I would have no problem however replacing you if your show sucked and I thought I could do a better job.

The linen company analogy posted earlier is a good one. For another, suppose that McDonalds is buying hamburger from American Cow Co for 89 cents/lb and National Cow Co offers them the same quality burger for 70 cents/lb and McD's accepts. Is National Cow Co now a low life, back stabbing undercutter.

The whole idea that you cannot pitch an existing consumer with a better deal is just.............well........... stupid, for lack of a more pleasant word.

I would stick with your 9 to 5 job. You dont sound cut out to be a business owner.

I believe that this is largly dependant on your area, the size of the market, the venue, the competition and other factors.

You hit the nail on head. With most of these incidences it depends on several factors. Only you know your markets and have to make the best decisions for you particular circumstance. What most of us mean by low balling is coming in with an offer that is rediculous causing the pay scale to drop in the area. Usually these types of KJs have subpar equipment with stolen libraries which makes it even more aggravating.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]