Karaoke Forums

errr a little off topic dude

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Gang, I appreciate everyone's input on this. When you're talking about developing a "following" who will support you week after week, there are a lot of factors here:

- Location - Is it easy and convenient to get to?
Mine is a downtown location with pay parking. For the most part the only people who frequent this area and venue are transient. They're either tourists or business travelers. Neither of which are there on a weekly basis, nor do they really ever read local publications/websites of the city they're in except for the tourist mags and sites. (Translation: $$$ advertising.)

- Day and time - Is it conducive to when people usually go out for entertainment?
Unless you're giving away $100 bills for a quarter, people are not usually going to break their routine of when they go out for fun. Sunday is a "school night" - most locals get up early for work the next day.

- Unique offering - Is it something they can't get elsewhere?
As much as we would like to think that we, the hosts, are the main determining factor in attracting people to our shows, for the casual singer, karaoke is karaoke. Again, unless you are offering dollar drinks, karaoke with a live band, cash prizes or something really compelling, people in the market for karaoke are going to the place most convenient for them. They're not driving 20+ miles to come downtown to pay to park on a Sunday night.

- The atmosphere - Does it have a large and lively crowd? Terrific sound? Cheap drinks?
No one wants to sing to an empty bar. Unfortunately it's the chicken and the egg syndrome. Something has to get the ball rolling. This is where the venue's promotion comes in. In marketing, we know it's much easier to "sell to" an existing customer than have a new one sample your product. If the bar gets a good regular crowd the other nights of the week, you might be able to sell them on "sampling" a different day and attraction. The fact is that during the week, the place is primarily filled with business travelers (who are gone by Sunday) or people who work downtown (during the week) so the chances they'll make a special trip to patronize the place on an off-night are slim.

So throughout this thread, I've been impressed by those who "get it" and intrigued by those with the "never say die" attitude. As I've said, I want to be a success in any venture I take on, but ALL the ingredients have to be there to contribute to that success.

By the way, anyone in the Seattle-Tacoma area who is interested in being referred to take over this show (assuming the venue hasn't also decided that the odds are stacked against them having a successful - translation: money-making - Sunday night with karaoke) can feel free to contact me offlist.

And you're also invited to my Wednesday (and new Monday) night show at my regular venue to see how packed the place is. Or better yet, take a look at the pics on my MySpace.

Hope everyone has great shows this weekend!

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Lonman:
I agree with what you said.
I DO promote my show, within reason and within my own abilites.
However, I am NOT going to spend my hard earned money doing what the bar should be doing in the first place.
He wanted me to go to the time and expense of printing up posters and putting them around town. At MY expense, not his.
Sorry, if he wants me to do that, then he can pay me for my expenses or pay me a higher rate.
He pays me little enough as it is, and I'm not going to let what should be HIS expense cut into my profit margin.
And I'm not going to have it cut into my family time and pay for a sitter and gas for extra travel to boot without some sort of compensation for it.
I've lived and worked in the area for over 20 years. I used to bartend around that town for years.
I know EVERYONE.
I actually have a great word of mouth network going and have a little group on Facebook as well. That system works great for me and I've built up a really good following.
Six months ago, I took his bar, which was dead and empty every night of the week and have turned it into THE place to be.
My karaoke nights are definitely the money making nights and the staff have told me so. Other nights are not money nights at all.
But my karaoke nights are.
So much so that other bars are giving me offers.
My bar owner doesn't want to give me a well deserved raise.Not even $25.
I currently get $150 a night. I agreed to that small amount because I was starting out and wanted to prove myself.
Well, I have. Without question.
I've had other karaoke hosts from other cities, provinces, and even some from the States tell me I run a great show. I know I do.
But the bar owner does not want to give me my due.
He brings in at LEAST $3000 on the better night and at LEAST $1500 on the slower nights.These figures are on the low side, BTW.
Those are great sales for the size of the place and for our area.
This is a small 200 person tops capacity bar.
We were at, if not over capacity tonight.
He thinks I shouldn't get a raise because his expenses went up because he had to hire another waitress to help out on the floor because it's so busy now.
He thinks he did me enough of a favor by "allowing" me to pass on the posters and by agreeing to my term of being paid cash at the end of every show.(I still give him a detailed, invoice, though).
He also is wanting to give $1000 cash away every month to the person who sings the most throught the month.
But he can't afford to give me a raise of even $25 a night.
AND I should do the promotion at MY expense for his bar.
Well I don't know about you, but I don't spend my time sniffing glue and I can do the math.
His job is promotion; mine is to entertain.
Well guess what? I'm taking my following and moving around the corner for twice as much money for less hours and less work setting up. The new place has their own new system, which is comparable to my own. I just have to bring my karaoke gear and that's it. No monitor, no speakers, and no mixer. The new guy is even providing his own wireless mics.
The new place has been completey renovated and is spanking new. They have great staff and a nice atmosphere.
Too bad the old guy wouldn't talk turkey with me.
Seems he's going to find outwhere his bread is buttered.
Anyways, enough of my rambling...

Google karaoke greeley or karaoke colorado. Business promotion is very necessary..

Partyplanner link

karaokelistings link

discjockeys.com link

Just recently got a myspace and wish I'd done it long ago..

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Good thing I don't live in Colorado, then
Where I live the demand for karaoke is fairly good, so much so that I don't have to do ANY promotion. They come to me.
There are very few around here who have invested the money to have enough of a catalogue to host a professional show.
Most Karaoke discs have to be mail ordered.
I can think of only 2 other hosts in the whole area (East Kootenays) and they are a husband/wife team that split up and consequently split up their catalogue as well.
There was 3 others at various times in the past. Two have moved away and the third quit for her own reasons.
I don't advertise because I don't want to work full time.
Every gig I have, I did not seek. They all came looking for me.
In truth, I never really wanted to go professional, but my boyfriend, who is a sound tech and rents out gear, pushed me to make my system earn its keep when someone approached him looking for a karaoke host.
I now wonder why I didn't do it sooner!

See I see this as a part of my business. I am not just a host, I have a company to promote & will do what it takes to make it as successful as possible meaning I will advertise my shows. If I am paying for it, I pretty much just advertise my show with a little calendar of where you can catch my show at. If the bar wants a nicer promo for themselves, then they can do it & hype the bar up. But I will design, put out fliers/posters whatever it takes. It takes money to make money. If they aren't paying you enough now to be able to do this, then you may want to find another place that will. Incoporate that into your pay. Again, I am not promoting the bar, I am promoting my show with all these extra expenses - but they do go hand in hand.



I see the compensation as a more popular show that others will want (either in clubs or private parties) at higher prices. If people know about it & are coming in because of you, then it will reflect overall.



$150 isn't bad, more than most bars around here will pay anymore. But if you have brought the revenue in the bar up & they still aren't willing to bump your pay, then hit the other clubs up. Business is business.



His job is to promote the bar only, and possibly anything that goes on inside if they are a little smart. But it's not all on him IMO. You are a part of promoting as well, promoting your show!

But again, if they are getting that successful & you know for fact that people are coming in for you, make him one final offer - hey nothing personal this is business, if he don't agree with the raise, take your show & the crowds down the street to one of the other offers. He may think twice about it when he is no longer having a great night.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Advertising for new work is one thing, once you get a show, promotion of your show to get people coming in is a part of your job. Sounds like you have a great thing going though. Don't lock yourself into one club that doesn't want to pay you but pay everything else around you!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Um, if you won't take any responsibility for bringing people into a venue, you sure can't take credit for the people who are already there. YOU don't pack the place....


Dan, assuming you believe that you can't get this Sunday venue going, why did you take it on? Not being a wise guy this time. I usually scout all new venues to see if they are viable before taking them on....

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe, as I've previously posted, the place built a great reputation with a longtime host who left there last year. After he left they got another host there who ran most everyone off. Only after I started there about 4 months ago have the crowds come back even stronger to produce the bar's highest revenues ever. I think I'm justified in taking credit for that.Because they PAID me! I had not been there on a Sunday night, but I already knew that night was not happening for them. I thought their inroads to the hotel would attract a nice crowd to the show. It was only after I began and tried to understand why people weren't coming that I came to the realization that it wasn't going to work.

Don't get me wrong, it might well be that after several months something might happen there. But I don't see it happening.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

I am not a football fan, so I can't tell you when football season starts and I certainly can't tell you at what times the games are broadcast in the PST.

With that said, here on the eastcoast I have tried to cultivate Sunday night karaoke shows. Each time football has been a deal breaker. If nothing else, my show has been cancelled by management during playoffs, superbowl and probowl weekends. After those three weekends killed my following I vowed never again to do a Sunday night show.

I think it really depends, sure it may take a few months to get something to really get going to be the hot place in town on a particuar night of the week.

On the other hand it may also be obvious that things just are not taking off on specific venue or night of the week, depsite promotions and advertising.


My views are as follows:
First decide how big you want your show to be.

Is it going to be a social event for a small but dedicated crowd of 10-20 on a otherwise dead night for a bar? If so expect very modest pay, but possibly more chance for friendships and social interaction getting to know some of the regulars very well.

Is it going to be a busy event with a full bar and long waitlists to sing. This can pay a lot more but it is also a lot more work, as well as providing far less opportunity to socialize.

Is it going to be a slow event on a obscure bar with only 10 or so singers with few regulars returning on a regular basis, many of the people being travelers or tourists. This can get to be boring, and probably will not pay well. It also may be very hard to build a clientelle.

It sounds like your situation is becoming like case #3, and that is not good. If there is little expectation for improvement it may be best to call it quits, or at least enter serious discussion with the bar about doing it.

If a bar has a contract that is not working well for them, they may be glad to be let out of it (if it is not making them money). If you are not getting enough satisfaction from the specific gig as well it may be best for you both to agree to end it. Sure if you need the money stay on for the full 9 weeks, but remember the local karaoke community is small and a long term "dead" karaoke show can hurt your rep, and that may hurt your chances on getting gigs on better venues or better times.

Sure it may take months to build a big following, but in a few weeks one can see the trend. How many returns are you getting on week 4 that were there in the previous weeks? If it is very few then you can read the writing on the wall. On the other hand if you only add 2-3 regulars who are going to make your future shows half of the time or better each week, then your show is really taking off and after a few months it could be a big thing. A good bar on a good night may have a built in base to start from, a bad night like sunday and bad location may make it very hard.

What if you were expecting more of the first but get the second in spades? The bar is going to want to keep you because you are making them money. Has anyone ever had the situation that they want to quit even though the bar loves them? Do you just raise your rate? As a consultant, that is what I do. I know if I get too busy it is time to raise my rates.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Look at your priorities. Do you get what you want from the combination of work/fun/pay that makes the job worthwhile to you in your situation.

I just quit my well paying day job of 10 years. The boss did not want me to leave, but I was not enjoying the work environment. Towards the end he could have doubled my salary and I still would have quit. Problem is he could have made some very minor changes in his way of working with people that would have allowed me to stay. Many KJ gigs are the same way. There are many bars I would never dream of doing Karaoke in, they just would not be fun for what I want out of it.

A stressful job may not be worth it even for a lot of money (depending on how much stress). An enjoyable job may be worth it even if it is for practically no money especially if you have another source of income and you get enough personal satisfaction. The important part to remember is think of yourself and what you want first, not what the bar (or boss) wants.

I am living proof of that. I built a company, sold it, worked for the company that bought me. Then when I quit them, I had to make a decision. Did I want the headaches and stress of starting a new business again?

I decided that I needed to set some goals for the new business, and if my setup didn't meet those goals I would give it up. The top three things for me were:

1. Have a partner to take the load off so vacations are possible.
2. Grow slowly and steadily, no mad rush to make money.
3. Constantly upgrade the client list, so that we only work with people we want to work with.

We have accomplished this, and I am very happy. I have time to devote to music, and I still make a decent income to keep cash flow positive. My partner is wonderful, in which I know I am extremely fortunate. And we are slowly bringing people on board to work for us so that I will be able to retire pretty soon.


I agree with this. I also believe that good people can find a way to make it anywhere. From what little I have seen you are one of those guys, and I expect you will do just fine.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I guess I look at is as a job is a job. Sure there is a limit of how much stress a person can take before they just feel like a diiferent job would be better for them, but I think a lot of people these days think work is supposed to be fun. If you can find a job that you love everyday you are a lucky person. Work is just that though work. You have good days and bad. It seems the younger generation is under the assumption they have to love their job to stick with it. It gets harder and harder to find dedicated employees.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

We have a lot in the rural area I am in -- it is not like some places where it seems like the cast is always changing. Of course we aren't exactly lighting the world on fire in growth, either.... But things have changed since times of yore -- more information and mobility means people can change jobs. When you do, though, there is a downside. It doesn't look good on your resume. Constant job-hopping condemns you to a poor long-term position, in my mind.

Loyalty is a two-way street. Companies that want to keep good employees have to treat them well. I have been blessed by working for outstanding companies. I'd like to think they were blessed in some small way by having me, too. Since I have never been fired and have never resigned in disgust, it seems that it has been that way.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Thought some here might be interested in how things turned out. I also blogged about it.

I let one of my friends who is also a host know that this gig could be coming available and to come check it out. He arrived with a bunch of friends who were all experienced singers. Good thing too, because the bar probably only had 15 other people in the place, only a few of which were singing.

The night went more quickly and was more fun because of the bunch my friends brought. (Who actually, unprompted, showed their props and good karaoke etiquette by putting something in my jar...imagine that!) At the end of the night, the bar manager gave me my check and I told her we needed to talk.

Told her I was exercising my 4-week cancellation option because I "had some other opportunities presented to me". She looked like I just killed her dog! Having karaoke was all her idea that she presented to HER boss, the general manager of the place. She told me they were "committed to making it work". In other words, they wanted to continue having karaoke there even though to me it didn't seem like it was bringing any additional people in nor ringing the register more. Very unusual to find a bar willing to do that!

I told her I could continue to manage the relationship and bring in other hosts who work with me (as well as continuing to promote the show and handle artwork for their posters, etc.) or I can just give her some phone numbers and they can hire someone on their own. She said she'd give the message to the general manager who would be calling me.

Well that was Sunday, and here it is end of day Tuesday, and no call. Which could mean one of two things. Either the GM told the bar manager he didn't want to bother with karaoke anymore. Or he just decided to do his own thing and find his own replacement.

I told the bar manager that I hoped we could work together in the future perhaps with private parties coming this holiday season and she was more than welcome to come sing (she loves to sing!) at my other show.

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]

Totally agree with the Facebook idea.......as well as hosting Karaoke in the Uk,we DJ weddings etc and facebook has got us sooo many jobs...heres my group...we posted videos and pics on it too.....http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20291391793

Of course they didn't call, and as a previous part owner of a bar, I wouldn't either. I would be absolutely disgusted. THEY were showing good faith in you, and you were showing nothing.

THEY were committed to giving it their best effort ( plenty of time, promotion, hard work, and money) for making karaoke a success. By quitting after the fourth night, and doing virtually NOTHING to help the show prior to that, you showed them that you, the "KJ", ( who should be even MORE committed) were not. They will probably either be disgusted and leave it alone, or find someone with more enthusiasm who is dedicated to his/her work.

Just so you know: I require a 6 week commitment from any venue. I started one where the first 4 weeks absolutely bit. Other current events were taking peoples' attention. The place is on an isolated road. They are primarily a restaurant and always used to close after dinner service- around 9:30.

They put up a few small posters in the place, but I kept promoting, telling my singers, e-mailing, texting, etc...

The last two weeks of the trial period kicked butt. Today, several years later, it's still kicking butt, and the venue doesn't close until 2 AM on my night.

I am happy for you regarding your new day job, and congratulate you. It seems to me that this is your focal point now- which is fine. However, the impression I have is that you are no longer able to give your best efforts to your entertainment customers, which really isn't fair to them. You may wish to re-think your entertainment work and whether you really want to continue.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Actually, I've been so busy this week, I forgot to post the coda to this song. Wednesday the bar manager called me and said she'd spoken with the General Manager and they wanted me to continue managing the relationship with another of our hosts. They also asked to extent our contract through March, 2009.

So my company will continue to staff and promote this show and hope for the best. We'll continue to give them posters and table tents, etc. I'll be there this Sunday to get our new host set up and meet with the General Manager who has yet to be there on Sundays, and can get an idea of the dynamics.

One thing that puzzles me, he now wants to put the karaoke in a back room away from the bar saying that some who come in there on Sunday nights don't like karaoke. My take is that if he wants to react to a handful of drinkers and relegate his commitment to a successful karaoke show to the back room, it may not produce the results he's looking for. I might agree in moving the karaoke IF he ALREADY had a big following for the show and a regular crowd who knew to come there for karaoke. Guess we'll see!

Ain't this a great business?

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[font=Lucida Console]DangerousKaraoke.com[/font]
[font=Lucida Console]"Sing for the day, sing for the moment, sing for the time of your life!"[/font]