Karaoke Forums

My Dad and I are looking at venturing into this business as a hobby. We both love to sing it, and we have so much fun, that we decided to give it a go.

We are in the preliminary stages of looking for a professional system to buy, but I really don't know where to start.

I see some people using laptops, and some using the CD+G's, and some that use both.

Can anyone give me some direction on where to start looking?

Let's assume that $$$ really isn't a huge issue right now, and tell me about the right way to get started without screwing around with mid to low level gear.

Don't get me wrong, it's not an unlimited checkbook, but I usually like to know what's the best, so I have something to shoot for. Then, I can scale back to meet my budget.

Ultimate question for me............PC or CD+G? Pro's and Con's of each?

Thanks folks.

Hey Tymzend,
I just check out a system at guitar center for a friend of mine. It's the B-52 Matrix which consisted of 2 tens for highs, a 15' subs and amp built in to run all the speakers for only $800. I've seen kj use this system comfortably on a crowd of 300. I added the mackie dfx12 $189 and a beta sm58 $169 and all the cables necessary for the system and come out under $1200 (that's with a little magic of the tongue). but yeah that system seems really good. I don't have too much experience with the mackie mixer with the build in effects so maybe one of the guys on here can recommend something better. if i were to start over, i would go this route. can't answer your other questions because i only used DVDs.

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Without music,
Life would be a Mistake
~~~~Friendrich Nietzsche~~~~~

in karaoke.. the best opinions so far are for speakers.. are peavey, JBL (Mpro& SF) , or Yahama, If ya really want nice there are others like Cerwin Vega and others. The amplifiers,, they are a crapshoot as long as they have good protection and the speakers are powered appropriately.. (Crest, QSC, Lower end Crown, Yahama, Peavey) they will all get ya there.

Consoles.. Apples and oranges..

Apples... (standard unpowered.. No fx) Mackie VLZ, Yahama MG right now the 2 hottest sellers.
with effects.. Mackie DFX, Yahama MG16/4fx Behringer (hit & miss) there are others depending how deep your pockets go.

Oranges... (powered) Yahama ( i don't remember the series) Mackie makes one too. Behringer's powered has had a few probs.. but good to get by for starting out if ya plan on replacing it in a couple months.

processing.. depends on taste.. I definately recommend at least a DBX 166 comp for the output of the board between the console and amp. if not at least to compress those screaming singers.

if you buy a console without fx.. you'll need an fx unit.. I definately recommend one of 2 brands.. Yahama just upgraded thier SPX line for live. and isn't too bad.. it's the SPX-2000 you'll get what you pay for in that unit.. or the Lexicon MPX-100. which is just a bare bones no-frills easy to run fx system.

Microphones.. here is what I suggest doing.. this is the way I shop microphones.. My dealer knows me well enough so I get away with this..

I am able to get about 6 mics at a time.. (of different brands & models) and compare them.. Flat on the console that I'm purchasing. all in 2 different channels.. in a REAL NICE set of headphones.. (AKG-271) or studio reference type monitors and i try to get all the color and clarity i want without having to put it in on the console. even if it means singing a song or two in the demo room at the pro audio store. i think they have heard worse singers... but i think it would be worth the while.. Personaly a great shure mic like a SM 58.. or a Audix OM-5 , or an AT-6100 wired.. all are quite affordable places to start.. as for wireless mics.. I can only make ONE suggestion.. AT-3000 series handheld.. 200 channels UHF. I have the AT-4000 series.. and i'd not go back to anything but the 4000 after it. my primary personal performance mics for vocal live work is the OM-5 & 6's the OM-6 is too much mic for karaoke.

E-mail me if I can help further.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Wow, that's a lot of great information folks.

That will give me something to chew on for a bit. From what I am hearing, it seems that buying a packaged system over the net isn't as good as piecing all of the components together on your own.

As far as the music, it sounds like if you don't mind carrying CD+G's, that's the way to go. Less hassle, probably better quality, and definitely more reliable.

I am like a sponge for information for this.

The problem with buying a packaged system is you can always find a better set up. Some of them aren't bad, but you can still find better when it comes to exactly what you get quality wise for the dollar you spend. One other thing to consider is don't cut yourself short to save a couple bucks. If you do, you'll never be happy with what you have. You'll always be saying shudda, couldda, wouldda. Also, you don't have to spend a million to get something decent. You can always upgrade as you go, but you don't want to have to start upgrading right away. You want what you start out with to last a while. Good Luck.

Ron is absolutely correct.. you need to find a "happy medium" and grow from there.. unless you have "Disposable cubic startup funds" and know that you can take the risk of losing it all.. For me I know one of these days I'm not going to be able to do it like I have done it.. 97% of the operators out there don't have the shows that I try to run.. but I learn daily doing it and now I'm attempting to start a karaoke show like most. It's not a familiar situation.. it's strange not going out and saying "I want 6 of these.. and 8 of those" And being real picky on what music you put in the books.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Dear Tymzend,
Before you jump into the fire check out Yorkville Sound
Pound for Pound the best gear on the planet!!!!
Audio Pro amps and Mixers(they make several packages to choose from)
Believe me this company will out perform Both Peavey and Mackie any day.
When it comes to mics take Brians advice Shure SM 58 the best and most reliable mic in the universe!!!

Nuff Said
If you need anymore advice E-Mail me.

Rick E

Rick,
Maybe You read my post Wrong.. I Actually prefer The Audix OM-5 & 6 Wired Over the Shure SM-58. and have yet to destroy one. Actually I get a better quality sound out of my OM-5 than out of any Shure dynamic wired vocal mic I have ever had on my live systems. and my live systems see 90-110 shows a year plus. not including installations.

Not just an endorsement.. a proven fact.. the only mic than can beat it is AT.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

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Karaoke should be fun...don't take yourself too seriously....keep in mind...not many talent scouts visit karaoke shows. Don't fret about small stuff...and quit asking the K.J. "when am I going to sing next?" or "I think you missed my turn"...this is evidence that you have overestimated your self importance...and maybe you should take up crossword puzzles.

I totally agree... and am with ya 100 percent on that end.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

So, here's what I'm thinking, based upon what I read here and a couple of e-mails with Brian.

2 JBL Speakers (15")
1 JBL Sub (18")
1 Crossover
1 Amplifier (- Crest/Yamaha/Peavey- 1000 watts? or more?)
Mackie VLZ 12 Channel Mixer
1 Effects unit (not sure on this one yet)
1 Compressor (DBX?)
2 Wireless Mic's (Nice ones)
2 CDG Players
1 TV Monitor

Besides the music, am I missing anything? Feel free to fill in model numbers and rough prices on this stuff. Trying to establish the initial investment.

Thanks again!

Sounds like you're on the right track for a killer system. Would personally add a separate amp for the sub & keep a 2nd 18" in the budget, outdoor shows will thank you for it - but that's just me.
Crossover if funds allow, look into TDM otherwise dbx would be a good choice here. You may even consider the dbx Driverack. a 2 way crossover will be fine, but if you want to tri-amp, then you will need a 3 way.
Amps, Crown/Crest/Peavey/QSC all good choices. Get an amp that is rated double what your speakers rms power & you should never have a problem.
Nice mixer.
dbx compressor 266XL at the very minimum, 166XL is a nicer unit & will sound a little better.
Mics are pretty much a personal preference. I like Shures myself.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Dear Tymzend,
The thing I like the most about this site is the collective and combined expertise.
Brian has put together a good list to work with and musicman7261 has told you the most important thing are the Discs and selection.
I agree totally with everything thats been said but I would advise you to rent a couple of different systems for the first bit, and do your own tasts tests. You may prefer something else.
I use only the best gear when I do live sound production( Meyers, Adamson, QSC, Crest, DBX, Allan & Heath, Soundcraft, etc...but my clients pat for it.
When it comes to Karaoke I've used JBL, Peavey, Yorkville, EV and EAW cabinets.
Audiopro, Soundcraft, Mackie and Peavey consoles and Audiopro and QSC amps.
It's not that I don't like Peavey or Mackie, it's just I prefer something else.Rick E

Rick, You sound like my kind of KJ/Engineer...

we may find common ground yet..

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Just a suggestion,

Use a power conditioner (Furman), and keep your total draw under 20 amps. Most small venues are not set up with multiple circuts.
I also use a Furman voltage regulator for outdoor use with a generator.

Cort
MC Entertainment

MC.. that much equipment is a given under 20 amps.. so is a rack conditioner.. If the KJ's are smart when they make thier purchases.


Lighting.. now that is a subject we haven't been discussing lately.. because not alot of it is used.. and actually it gets more technical than alot of KJ's can comprehend.

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Brian D.
(BHB)

Brian,

You're the man, but in my business I've learned never to assume anything. You might have a look at Tymzend's first post and realize that he is asking for help because he does not have your vast resevoir of knowlege.

Tymzend's last post listed the equipment he thought he ought to get.
I did not see a power conditioner listed and therefor made the suggestion.

I would also concur with Lonman with the addition of a 2nd amp to run a sub woofer. Now unless Tymzend is an electrician, he may not understand the reason for keeping an eye on his power consumption. That is where you come in.

Now about lighting, talk to me Brian ... I'm just a dumb old KJ and would like to be enlightened. How about doing a posting on the subject?

Cort,

MC Entertainment

Now Rick Will probably want to weigh In on this one too...

but I'm not as sharp on lighting and all the neat visual toys .. as I should be.. and so I just keep up on it enough & hire the guys to keep my shows marketable.. those are the guys that really know thier stuff.

ANYWAYS:

<Deep breath>

lighting in some places tends to create problems in the circuitry, & sound systems if they are run off the same distrubution point.

Mostly caused by the Dimmer packs and Effects.

BUT>> Also Lighting and visual effects (in my expierence) Draws a significantly increased amount of amperage load and power requirement than any PA system ever will, if you are running a fairly large sized lighting rig. for example the largest Karaoke rig we have ever used...
( 24 Par cans and 4 I beams, 2 luminares, 4 OmniPilots, 4 Atomic Color Strobes & 2 High End DL-1's and Element Labs "Versa Tile" LED wall{the squares are 4"x4" the wall is 5' X 12'} all in a medium sized ballroom and killing yourself to do it you need to find appropriate power before you can bid a show like that.

Legitamately it takes 300 amps 3 phase to run that much AV or I won't do it.. and that's more power than I'll ever need but it's really nice to have it. Then I can drive the sound system off of the house wall circuits.

It's a real production when it's all said and done.. but those shows require 3 people to run them unless they are live .. then we do it on 6.

Karaoke we do it on 2 people. without the LED wall.
RE: The LED wall We don't own or lease it.. we can rent it affordably and it goes between 8 companies based on availablity on a contractual basis.
As they are not a inexpensive item to own.

_________________
Brian D.
(BHB)

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the enlightenment. I have a question, what is the total wattage that your equipment uses?...I would assume that you would use 300 watt par64's (unless you are planning on slow roasting the stage with 1000 watt bulbs) which would work out to 7200 watts or 60 amps, the Led array (5' x 12'..24 panels @ 50 watts each) 1200 watts/10 amps, and Misc. DMX lighting and effects..maybe 4800 watts/40 amps... the total would work out to approx. 110 amps of single phase power. What are you using that requires 3 phase power?

Please remember now that I am from California and am a little bit slow,
Thanks for your time,

Cort
MC Entertainment